Vista RC2 - Rant! (Can you guess who's posting this without looking?)


RC2 appears markedly better then RC1. Hard to quantify, but RC2 appears to run a lot cleaner, a lot lighter, compared to RC1.
More programs work. User Account Control is less intrusive.


That said, I can post more if anyone has an interest :evilgrin:.
I'll try to be objective , but its likely to come out in a series of <nonsensical> rants. If anyone has an interest :-).

Hey, I'll read your posts! :7 :lol:

Rant away Steve, it's good to read about the things people don't like also. :-)

I consider myself to be of average intelligence, & to have an OK understanding of computers & such.

I'm try not to delve too much into the innards of Vista, or some of the newer utilities - like Windows Defender.

While Defender has been around for a while, it is my first look at it. Ditto for Windows Firewall. I expect that they do whatever it is that they do - they did come preinstalled in Vista, & I expect them not to harass me, or to cause me problems. And I don't really want to look at them if I don't have to.

I'm pretty much just trying, as a new user would, to take whats given, & go with it. I'm expecting that what I install - works.

Thats where I'm coming from.


I'll post things as I came about to them, or as I come to them.


nit = nitpick = to be excessively concerned with or critical of inconsequential details

Vista sometimes simply boggles my mind.

XP has mechanisms that, IMO, protects us from ourselves (to our detriment, again IMO), but to me, Vista has that (at times) in spades.

It's my computer, & I want to do what *I* want to do with it!

My earlier thread for reference:

"VISTA - What A Humdinger Of An OS!"
http://www.pcqanda.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=2&topic_id=425753

INSTALL

Relatively uneventful. Though ...

The part dealing with partition/format is confusing.
I'm not clear on what I'm seeing, on the actions I'm about to take. What more needs to be said, I'm confused.

I get past that, partitioned, & I'm installing.

Computers Current Location (for Networking or whatever).
It (I believe) defaults to Public. Other options are Home & Work.
Home says, discoverable & you can see other computers.
Work says, discoverable & you can see other computers.
(Do you see the reason to choose one over the other)?
Public says, airports, coffee shops, ... discovery is limited.
(OK, thats different, but it defaults to that)?

I choose Home.

Install continues & finishes.

So its no big deal. But on the onset of install, I'm confused - more then once.

Desktop.

Background & display.

All I want is a solid color - simple.
Color selected does not reflect the color shown?
No, thats not it. Color clicked "changes" color (in the selection box) when clicked, & so no longer reflects the color it was, & now the desktop background color.

No big deal, just a nit.

Ordinarily, in XP, you turn Drop Shadows ON. It makes the desktop look much nicer. In Vista, it is on by default, but it looks terrible to me. (That was a nit in my earlier thread). This time, I realize that by turning Drop Shadows OFF, you get solid black text on the desktop icons. Now, for me, its readable.

No big deal, just a nit.

Defrag.

Didn't like it in RC1. No change here.

I still don't know what its doing. Cannot believe they put in such a non-interface. At one point, I thought it stopped. But maybe it hasn't. I can't tell. It is just that stupid!

It simply is not easily observable what it is doing, or where it stands as it proceeds. No graphical display with colors jumping all over the place, no progress indicator, just a blob. A box. With no clear indications what is happening.

I'm confused.

No big deal, but I'm confused.

Workgroup.

I changed my Workgroup name.

Dialog.
You must restart your computer to apply these changes before restarting, save any open files & close all programs ...

OK.

But, it is not clear, whether that is just a cursory warning or if clicking OK will restart the computer. I don't know whats going to happen!

OK, clicking OK did not cause the computer to restart - whew!

Then, after I get out of the Change Workgroup bla bla part, then, I get a more normal, you must restart, now or later dialog.

Just dumb that I couldn't (intially) tell whether I'm reading an informatory dialog, or one which will perform an action (like reboot my computer).

AVG antivirus.

AVG, goes through the install.
AVG tells me one component didn't install or something to that affect.
(It didn't say the program didn't install, though, which i don't think it did)?

Then Windows says it didn't install, do you want to install it with xxx other options, (but that wasn't the terminology). So I go through the whole thing again. Did nothing different, but this time it installs. Go figure.

After I update AVG defs, Windows Security Center still says 'out of date'.

AVG did not require a reboot. Thats different?

Well, all is not good. Only after all this do I realize that there is a dialog box. 'AVG resident shield service has stopped working'. Not sure when that came up? Before, during or after?


With all the popups one normally sees on Vista, this one, was not brought to attention.


It gives me the option to check online of fixes, (wrong wording again), & it scrolls for a bit, then the dialog box goes away.

VERDICT - I don't know? Is the real-time working? Did the online bit do anything? I don't know?

Guess i'll reboot.

Reboot & AVG shows I'm up to date, & Windows Security Service no longer shows. So it looks like its OK.

Full scan (default settings) took ~20 minutes.

What it was telling me & what it was doing, was "Compatibility Mode" stuff. From what I understand, CM is an automatic thing. It happens or it doesn't, & can't be forced by the user?

So if a program doesn't install right off, it can try again in CM. Something to that effect, & that is what I was seeing, but didn't know it at the time.

(Something like that).

Networking.

WOAH NELLY! I almost threw the computer out the windows!

All I wanted to do was to network Vista to my XP machine. Simple.

During the install, I had already selected 'Home, discoverable', & all that. A piece of cake.


Before I actually tested the network, I knew what was going to happen, so I wrote it down ... "still the only directories I can figure out how to access over a network share are the /Public/ directories".

But then I actually tried to connect. NOPE! I can't do it this time. (I was able to in RC1). Ruven (my computer name) is not accessible, you might not have permission, bla, bla, bla ...


I have no idea why I could not access the network? Check everything I can think of, but nothing works.

Then, I have no idea why I now can?
The only thing i did, was to turn off Windows Firewall. When I did that, I could then see the network share. And I could then open /public/. And then, I turned Windows Firewall back on. And now I still can. I don't know why?

I made no changes to Windows Firewall (I don't think). Turned it off, was able to see the share, turned back on, still able to see the share. I don't know why?

Networking shares.

I want to share my entire C: drive.
Maybe not smart, maybe not who cares, I want to do it.

I can't. Can't figure it out. Couldn't in RC1. Still can't.

The only thing I have figured out to share, is /Public/.

So now, when I copy over my C:\BIN\ directory, I copy it to a subdirectory in /Public/, & from there I copy it to \BIN\.

Well, gee, that is convenient.

There must be a great reason for this - keeps blood pressure medicine companies in business.

I want to share my entire C: drive, but I can't figure it out!

Networking, shares, permissions.

While we're on this - Permissions.

I took a look at Permissions.

There is no way an average, or even advanced user is going to be able to make heads or tails out of that.

Security | Advanced | Permissions | -> Edit ...

Take a look at that mess, IMO. Try to explain that to someone. Maybe it is understandable, maybe there is some reasoning to it, but when I looked at it, there was utter confusion. Afraid to make changes, lest I open myself up to - thats the problem, I don't know what? The only thing I do know is that it is not a place I wish to venture - except with explicit instructions & after long study.

Windows Firewall.

During my networking attempts, I opened WF.

I look, I'm confused.

I'm not sure what to do? What not to do? How to do it?

I'm unfamiliar with the program, I'm confused.


I am familiar with ZoneAlarm. I have a pretty good feel for how it works. Even if I didn't have knowledge of it, I don't feel it would be too difficult to work my way through it.


But with WF, I'm simply confused. So in my confusion, during my attempts to network, the easiest thing I can do, is to turn it off. So I did.

And that did happen to work. And so I turned it back on. And my network continued to work. And at this point, that the extent of my knowledge of WF.


On initial inspection, its' interface looks daunting.


Somewhere down the line, when I have time to play around, I'll look at WF. But at this point in time, all I want to do is get my network working. I don't want to have to concern myself with the workings of a (confusing to me) firewall.

Program installation.

I go to install Servant Salamander.


Unable to spawn external program: requested operation requires elevation. Setup.exe.


I cannot run an install? I am an Administrator - I suppose? Yet I cannot install a lousy (well excellent actually) program!

(Administrator? Actually I still don't know if I am or am not. I don't need to concern myself with that, though I assume I am?)


So I start fumbling around. Why can't I install?
I come across something, User Account Control. I see the OFF button. Figure I'm home free. (I think I turned it off in RC1). When I tell it OFF, it tells me, I HAVE TO RESTART TO APPLY THAT CHANGE! ARG!

I tell it to restart.
But I can't? Cause, 'Task scheduler engine process is executing shutdown tasks, & stopping tasks that are already running'. OF COURSE IT IS, I SAID TO RESTART. Also says that User Accounts is open (so, close it), & LeechTMP is open (a folder - so, close it), & Program compatibility assistant is open.

For crying out loud. I now have to choose between Restart Now, & Cancel. ARG! I told it I wanted to restart, why couldn't it simply close all open applications & restart!

Its at this point that it dawns on me, Program compatibility assistant.

Whatever that is, I didn't run it. What is that.

Had I missed that, I would have hit Restart, & that would have been that. But it caught me, & I hit Cancel.

And I look, & there is this dialog - Compatibility Mode, once again.

And again, I'm not sure when it appeared.
With all the popups one normally sees on Vista, this one, was not brought to attention. (Didn't I say that before)?

Once again, if not for me going to restart, if not for the message coming up nagging me, if not for me actually reading the message, I would have never known that windows did this compatibility thing.

Servant Salamander.

Windows has applied compatibility settings to the program. Windows will use these settings the next time you run the program.

What settings are applied. I don't know? But setup runs, the program is installed.

Thats all I asked for originally, for the program to install. Simple.

Antivirus & security type programs.


Kaspersky A/V (at least the AOL Active Virus Shield variety of it from 9-20-06) is blocked from install.

F-Prot A/V installs.

blbeta (rootkit) says it requires Administrator privileges? Maybe I am NOT an Administrator? I don't know.

CWShredder, runs.
Says it found CWS.Msconfig. Can't fathom how? Figure must be false positive?
http://cwshredder.net/cwshredder/cwschronicles.html#msconfig

Hijackthis.
Denied write access to the Hosts file. Suppose thats OK, but why is it trying to "write" to it? Guess that Defender is blocking Hosts, & that is a safeguard. Then hijackthis reports an unexpected error, but continues, & in the end it generates it report, as requested. So it works - mostly.

Spybot. Generates User Account Control popup.
I say OK to install. Installs fine.
I run the program. Generates UAC. I say OK.
Otherwise, updates & runs successfully.

Spywareblaster. Generates UAC popup.
I say Ok to install. Installs fine.
I run the program. Generates UAC. I say OK.
Otherwise, updates & runs successfully.

MS Windows "malware" tool, aka KB890830, aka that monthly tool that is downloaded. Generates UAC popup.
Otherwise, runs successfully.

Notice a pattern here with this UAC - whatever that is.

Every time I go to run one of those programs, UAC gleefully pops up & nags me.

Maybe there is a way to tell UAC to always allow these programs?

But I'm not smart enough to figure that out. Really. I'm not sure where UAC is, how to get to it?. Or is it part of Defender?

Its there. Its there to help me. I'll live with its nags.

I don't need to know about such things. MS is protecting me. All I need to do is to be able to run my programs, & I can do that, so I'm happy.

(Unnecessary jab at MS - I'll have to remember that).

UAC.

When UAC hits, it first grays the screen, & then after a bit of time, pops up it's prompt. Sometimes it even takes a bit of time before it grays the screen?

Nit.

Spybot.

Wow! Did you know that Spybot looks IN my bookmarks.html file, & flags all my less then savory links. Cool! It does, really.

Appears I don't have the ability to write to C:\ (root directory).

So any program that by default writes to C:\ will not work. Not that many such programs still exist anyway.

My ACD (Another Change Directory) utility stores its' index of my directory structure in C:\, in a file named 'acd.idx'.

Guess what - can't write, doesn't work!

Some programs that work, or on first glance, appear to work.
If installation is required, perhaps after Compatibility Mode kicks in.
(Not really going to be of much interest). Anyhow ...

------- Windows.

Servant Salamander - SeaMonkey (Mozilla) - Locate32 - LeechFTP - Lupas Rename - Irfanview - bintext - pic - regshot - Renamer - Win32pad -

------- Command line & or DOS utilities. (Most you probably won't have heard of & would be of no interest). Anyhow ...

ARJ - 7zip - ASK - AVIEW - CHKSUM - CAL - XXCOPY - COMPARE - CRC - NDIR - CRC - Directory Control - Directory Freedom - Norton Commander - DIRMATCH - DIRN - DIRX - DIRSIZE - DirSize - ZDU - Duplicate File Finder - elvis - EVAL - Fast Inflate - File Fix - fmt - FV - LGFastView - grep - General Unpack Shell - gvim - vim - HEDIT - JAR - lame - LHA - LIST - locate - Multiplan - NSCRYPT - Rar - RV - RVS - SED - SETTIME - slim - SORT - STRINGS - ShowText - TOUCH - UCEXE - UPCT - upx - UUD - UUE - VCOMP - Delta - File compare - ZDIFF - all sorts of Unix type utils - DOS version of F-Prot (even if it may be somewhat ineffective on an NTFS disk, as it will not read the entire directory tree) -

Your W(h)ine is improving with age!!

Couldn't resist the pun.

Vijay

Interesting stuff, therube.

Thanks.

Oddities observed.


EDIT: This happened the other day. A lot has happened in between. Anyhow, I just went to try to duplicate it, but it is not happening now? Now everything is working as expected?


Certain directories do not "autoupdate".
Certain directories do not show all files.
Certain directories block "access" (for writes), yet, you can write to them, & files do "exist" - in some fashion or another.

Take ...

/Program Files/InstallShield Installation Information/{9FD12630-1991-46F5-8479-92DE1EAE87DA}

C:\> DIR > XXX = Access is denied.

Win32pad.exe XXX (text editor, open/create file XXX)
- reports, cannot open file XXX, create new file? -> YES
- file is created, save changes? -> YES

C:\> DIR XXX = File Not Found

C:\> NDIR.EXE XXX = File found, 18 bytes. (NDIR is a directory lister).

Windows Explorer, does not show XXX?
Total Commander, does not show XXX?
Servant Salamander, does show XXX - after a refresh(F5)!

So, some utilities/programs can write to, & can see the file.
Others are blind to it?

Java Installation.

JRE 5.0_9u3 Error 1722:
There is a problem with this windows installer package. Setup did not finish as expected.

PCQ&A has this to say about 1722 ... Java Runtime Environment 5.0

Not much help there.



At this point, & this is really the important part of the whole deal, after the installation has aborted, UAC says, Servant Salamander may not have run correctly. Do you want to run it as an Administrator. (You guessed it. Take an otherwise excellent program that is running just fine, answer YES to some dumb prompt, & all hell breaks loose.) Now every time I open Salamander, or every time I open another instance of Salamander, UAC stops everything I'm doing & asks for confirmation - time & time & time & time again. Before, it was fine. Now I have to deal with this - GRRRR!

To try to fix it, I check the icon properties. It does not show that I am running it as an Admin - that I can tell. So I figure, I'll set it to run in Compatibility mode - WinXP SP2. At this point, after yet another UAC warning, I get a popup that ... it looks like you are running Salamander in Compatibility Mode. DUH! This may lead to instability or cause other problems. :bangheadagainstwall:



Back to Java. So I try again, & again, & again.

Then I decide to close all my browser windows - yes I should have done that initially, but who's to know?

At that point, Java installs without further ado. (Yes I know I should have done that to begin with, but I didn't).

During that Java/Salamander tirade, I get yet another pop to join the Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program. I graciously accepted. And that popup, of course, generated yet another UAC message.


You do realize, that by this point in time, it is automatic reflex to click the Yes/Allow prompt on ANY popup that I get!


Reference material for the above reaction: The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

Appears that Safarp & its like, will not work correct - for a lot of uninstalls.

Could not launch \program files\grisoft\avg\setup.exe /uninstall

Windows Add or Remove Programs (errr ... now, Programs and Features) did successfully remove those programs I wanted to get rid of. The newly named P&F is greatly improved. Yep, after 5 minutes of scrolling down various menu lists, & another 5 more minutes of an online search, I'm not likely to forget where Add or Remove Programs went to. Yep, greatly improved my memory in that respect.

A lot of niggling little issues - perhaps with older programs, perhaps not, abound.

Permissions & what not.
Cannot write to C:\ (root) directory.

So any program that stores some of its' information in C:\ will fail.

Symantec AntiVirus (a "corporate" product, not Norton AntiVirus).


SAV ... recommends that you disable Windows Defender to ensure that there are no conflicts between WD & SAV Security Risk Protection ???

It defaults to disable WD, though I unchecked it. So presumably I have whatever SAV SRP does & whatever WD does, both running?

I cannot run the install via InCtrl5 (an installation tracking program), as it needs Administrator privileges. (Any other programs I've run the InCtrl5 have worked just fine).

So I run the setup.exe directly, & it installs fine.

The tray icon appears, I am being protected, I am happy. I reboot.

I go to open the SAV program interface, youhoo, UAC calling. Every time you want to open the program interface, or even anytime you want to enable/disable Auto-Protect (via a right-click) on the tray icon, UAC rears its ugly head.

Now when I restart Vista, there is a racket of drive activity.

Task Manager shows nothing of significance. Though I do see an entry DoScan. DoScan is using a tiny bit of memory, & not much in the way of CPU. Though the taskbar icon does show high levels (75%+) of CPU usage - not shown in Windows Task Manager itself.

Thinking that SAV is doing an initial (limited) scan?

Yep, that must have been the case. Yet there was no outward indication of that, other then the racket & somewhat delayed reaction to opening programs. No (apparent) indication from Task Manager, no indication from SAV.

It would have been nice if there was some feedback.

So I open SAV (after a UAC popup, of course) & Scan History shows a just completed scan. It did a Quick Scan, fast scan for virus & risks in memory & common locations.

No problems there.

SAV appears to not have too much of an affect on the running of the system - compared to, say F-Prot A/V.

The other day when I installed SAV, live update ran & worked correctly.

Today, I downloaded a virus to see if SAV would recognize it (with 11-11-06 defs). It did not.

Ran live update.

Hung. Could not kill any SAV processes via Task Manager. (Access denied).

Reboot.

Open SAV, (UAC popup), Live Update, downloads defs, 99% updated, & hangs. I tell Vista to check for a solution. (Scroll, scroll, scroll - just a scrolling bar. Maybe that was the solution?) Again I'm left with a non-responsive "ghost" window that I cannot kill.

Reboot.

Try again. 99% update, & hang. Non-responsive.

Reboot.

Guess what I'm not about to do yet again!


(FWIW, KAV did flag the virus, F-Prot did not. Both with defs of 11-10-06).

(EDIT: Updating F-Prot with 11-13-06 defs, & it now also finds the virus).


Ok, you know me. A glutton for punishment.

So I disable Windows Defender - in case there is any conflict there.
(UAC popup, of course). Reboot.
Open SAV.
(UAC popup, of course).
Live Update.
Hang.

Hey, do you think AntiVir will run now under Vista RC2?

What virus did you try to download? I wonder if NOD32 would find it and kill it.

Just to point out, I don't need anything "killed".
I purposely downloaded it to see if SAV & or other AV's would find it.

I had NOD32 running under RC1, but I did not put it back on in RC2.


Virus (trojan actually, as the case may be) can be found in this thread:

"Fake IE7 setup e-mail that's actually a trojan"
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17261846

And also I'll point out the importance of CURRENT defs when you're messing around with stuff like this.

Friday's defs are not good enough when today is Monday.

Windows has blocked some startup programs.
Windows blocks programs that require permission to run when Windows starts.


That pops up every time & boot, & periodically thereafter.


And I don't know what that means, or what I can do about it, or if these "blocked programs" are running or not? I'm baffled!


I just realized, after all this time, & after clicking this dialog about 1000 times that ... I'm not sure what?

But this time, I choose a different option on the click, & it says System Configuration (aka msconfig) wants to open. (You know that normal dialog box you get when you make a change & reboot). So I say, Open (says me!), & after UAC (of course) pops up, I get the System Configuration box, with the block to, Don't show this message ...

Silly ol' me.
After all this time, I finally got rid of one thorn in my but!

I can't believe it! Reboot & no popup.

(Exhale, breath sigh of relief!)

Must remember those clear as mud dialog boxes are in fact there to help you!

Anyway, those 1000's of times before, I had opened Defender, thinking that is what it was telling me to do, & Defender reports things like ...

Program XYZ & program 123 & program UAC, are classified as "Not yet classified". And there is no option to do anything. And I don't understand what it is telling, or not telling me? Remove, Disable, & Enable are all grayed out?

(Remember, lack of self-control).

Some of the problems I have run into have been my own doing.

Like with Java, I know I should have shut down everything first, or at the least my browsers.

AntiVirus. I have had AVG, F-Prot, & SAV all installed & running - at the same time, though not necessarily simultaneously. (SAV not installed till today).

I have a tendency to run programs, might you say, in a (possibly) less then desired fashion. Perhaps without actually installing it, or whatever. In general that is no problem. It appears to be more of a problem in Vista.

Total Commander.

(Running in a "hacked" manner)
Error. Cannot write WINCMD.INI.
(Suspecting that it wants to write to C:\ (root) - perhaps elsewhere)?

When I actually run setup.exe, that gives me an option of selecting locations for *.INI, & that seems to have worked. (I choose to put *.INI into the program directory).

Auslogics Disk Defrag.

Manually extracted & run.
Ran & completed just fine.

GSpot.

GSpot has no install.
Though I got it to crash, & crashed (kind of) hard.
Windows asked me what to do, & I said something like, wait on it.

During this time, most other apps that I had running, could not be given focus. Though the X (close) box (on GSpot) still did work (suprisingly), & once I realized that, I then was able to change my decision from wait, to close/check for solution - without having to open Task Manager.

Opera 9.02.

I have never used Opera before.

Downloaded & installed. Nothing fancy.

For whatever reason, some web pages, just caused Opera to respond terribly. Download.com is one of its default bookmarks. So I loaded it. Then some other part of its' site ... don't remember where, but Opera responded horribly there.

Don't know what was going on?

Found it again. http://music.download.com/ & open that in Opera & all hell breaks loose in that browser?

Don't know. Have never run Opera anywhere else, so don't know if it is an Opera issue or Vista issue or combination or a fluke?

AntiVirus (not necessarily Vista related).

AVG, F-Prot, Symantec AntiVirus.

Had all three installed (at once).

Sometimes (inadvertently) had two (or more) running real-time (simultaneously). In addition, Windows Defender & whatever else might be running by default in Vista would be active.


"Hit" that an AV might put on a system.

Most look at Task Manager memory usage & if it show high usage, they equate that with a heavy "hit" on system performance. And other may also look at CPU usage during the time that an AV runs.

I don't (particularly).

I do look at how regular programs or activities respond while the AV is also running.


One simple method for me, is to watch the way I can copy or delete a set of files - while the AV is also watching those same files, checking them for virus.

So I took an eclectic set of (543) files, 75 MB, alternatively copy them from one directory, delete them, then copy them again.

So I took those files, & my handy dandy stop watch (which happens to be an Ultra Precision Command Timer, UPCT device, & gave it some (not too scientific) runs.

AVG 13.7 S
(then I uninstalled AVG)*(why?)

SAV 26.9 S (initial scan, after a reboot)
-- subsequent scans were quicker, ~14.5 S

FP 33.1 S
-- then 35.5 S, then 33.9 S
-- significantly slower then AVG or SAV
-- i.e., a much greater "hit" on real system performance

NO AV 11.9 S
-- then 11.8 S

Even with no AV running, something (Defender?) was still looking at the files as they were being copied.

It was apparent that particular files (the same ones) were looked at "harder" by all the AV's, & hardest at all by F-Prot.


I used a simply command line copy of my file set.

CMD /K UPCT.EXE XCOPY * \TMP\CACHE2

UPCT is the timer.
Copy all files from current directory, into another directory, & time it.

Why you asked?

Cause even though I installed it, & it worked (seemingly), I couldn't disable its real-time component.

Why you asked?

Cause when I went to disable its' Resident Shield, or any other parts of its' program interface ...

YOU HAVE NOT ENOUGH ACCESS RIGHTS TO SAVE CHANGES!

But then I figured it out!
Right-click, Run as Admin ...
There! Now hit Apply ...

BEEP ... YOU HAVE NOT ENOUGH ....

And during this time, Windows Security Alerts tells me that its' defs are out of date - even though I had just updated them. (Or so I believe I did? And AVG tells me I did?)

Why you asked?

Could there have been some conflict with - whatever? Who knows? I couldn't disable Resident Shield. So I uninstalled.

And what does "hit" mean?


It means, as I regularly run F-Prot (on some computers), that before I delete a large directory of files, or install a program that I know is virus free & that installs a significant number of individual files, that I turn off the FP real-time scanner. (Now how's that for protection).

It means that FP slows these operations down to a point where it bugs me . To a point where I take the time to turn it off (& it only takes a second to turn it off, or on).


AVG & SAV appear to have far less of an impact on my system.


(The Mozilla browser /cache/ directory, as would the IE TIF directories, would be good examples of deleting files. The Mozilla browser installation would be a good example of adding many relatively small individual files.)

So where are we at this point & IMO?


Pity the poor support personel.
Pity the poor end user who does something in a non-MS way.
Pity the poor user who uses software other then MS.
Pity the poor user who will have to update/upgrade both software & hardware to do what they currently are doing.


My "PC" is no longer a personal computer - it is an "MC", a Microsoft Computer (or some other things I would be allowed to print in this form).

It is owned, controlled, updated, by MS. I have no say in the matter.


UAC & other niceties make this such an INFURIATING beast - at least for what I've done with it, & how I tend to go about it.

UAC will become the first four letter word, made up of only three letters :clap:!

UAC you :lol:!


What happened to you?
I got UAC'd :lol:!

So whats good?


I still like the starburst!

RC2 is much improved over RC1.

I'm sure Vista will be very robust.

UAC makes it so, so, so incredible difficult for me to really make any kind of good comment about this OS. Everything I do, everything I touch, UAC is there to smack me :rolleyes:.


Other then that, I suppose at some point, I'll figure out how networking works.

Networking has never been easy or straight forward in Windows, & Vista is nothing but yet more difficult & more confusing.


Windows Defender/UAC that is going to be a learning curve.


Directory structures/Permissions - where you're allowed to go, where you're not, there is no rhyme or reason, that I can tell.

Thats the way I see it.

It may not mean a hill of beans to others.

LilJoe has it running on 10 boxes or whatever.

Others appear to have no problems with it.

But I feel the average joe is going to have a rude awakening when they get their hands on it, & start using it for real.

And now, at the midnight hour, I bid you all, goodnight :-).

LilJoe has it running on 10 boxes or whatever.
-----------------------------------------------

Just 4 boxes--running dual boot on 4 units. v.5744

Dear Therube,

Thanks for your educational observations and letting us share them along with you.

I really enjoyed reading them. In fact I have read them over and over again.

Best regards

Avira AntiVir.

Vista says there are known compatibility issues.

I say, install anyway.

(Installation directory cannot be changed. Browse... dialog not effective).

So I go with the default install directory.

Click next, to start the install. And it promptly freezes up.

So much of AntiVir in RC2.

(At least Task Manager could kill the hung process).

Now, thats impressive (perhaps)?

AntiVir, manually unpacked & run, detected the "virus" (mentioned up around #54 or so above), with virus def files dated 09-11-06, (I did not update them).

Avast 4.7.

Installed with nary a word from UAC.

(Either that, or UAC did appeared, & I subconsciously hit YES.
Wow, for a moment there, I thought I was running XP. Actually, I don't think UAC reared its ugly head.)?

After rebooting, the very first thing I did was to open my virus file (named IE7-setup.exe.VIR).

Avast did not find it.

Thinking because of the .VIR extension, it may have skipped over it. So I copied the file into another directory. As I did, I noticed that Avast was automatically updating its' defs. As I went to rename the file from .VIR to .exe, sirens went off.

Nice, clean, readable dialog. I was blocked from the file.

This all happened within 1 minute of rebooting. That part was impressive.


But, then when you get into the actual program. Parts are straight forward. But the skins? Why? Some parts are so clean looking, & then the skins!

Anyhow, it talked about being able to set things like scanning inside ZIP files. Maybe that only applies to an on-demand scan? I didn't see where I could configure that for the resident scanner?

It appears Resident does not scan every file, but only scans particular extensions. So my .VIR is ignored - until I went to rename it to .exe. (To me, it would be preferable to scan every file, regardless of extension).

Your "rant" reads more like a Mea culpa. :lol:

>Your "rant" reads more like a Mea culpa. :lol:
------------------------------------
He loves Vista, he's having the time of his life. Nobody arguing with him.:lol:

Another oddity.

System Volume Information, 8 individually (not meaningful) named files that take up 5 GB of space. Not only that, I can access SVI. Don't ask me why, as I haven't been able to access it before? I can't view any of those files, Access denied, but at least for once, I am able to see what is in there (in Vista). (There are other files in the directory/subdirectories, but there sizes are negligible).

So System Restore appears to be totally different then what you can see in XP. (Guess that means that I'll now have to see what an actual restore presents me, information wise).

Maybe Treesize, which was recently updated?

"TreeSize Free V1.7.9"
http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/index.shtml

So you want to know about System Restore.

Well SR shows 8 restore points for me, 11-29-06 through 12-02-06.
Dates basically coincide with what I can view in the directory itself.

So, what exactly is in that 1 GB file dated today?
Ain't got the foggiest.

So, what exactly is in that 463KB file dated today?
Ain't got the foggiest.

So ... you get the picture. Here I am, going to restore 1 GB of data (if I pick the latest Restore Point), & I have absolutely no idea what changes are recorded in there. (Can you say pot luck).

And guess what, had I not had this access to SVI, I would know even less then I do now. Had I not had access, I would not (perhaps) have even been able to determine that it is taking up 5 GB of disk space.

I think it is safe to assume that the restore file contains changes to Vista system files. It is a repair function, not a backup.

I understand that.
But the question is what could I possibly have done to generate 4.5 GB of data to be archived away by System Restore?


I do have a scheduled backup running separately, but that archives to a different drive.


"Installed" (installed or otherwise extracted) ... Interactive JPEG Optimizer (1 MB), MoSearch (54 MB incl. 48 MB generated data file), LimeWire (18 MB), SeaMonkey (34 MB), TreeSize (1 MB), XnView (9 MB), FSViewer (6 MB).

Windows Defender updated its' definitions. There have been no Vista program updates - at all, that I am aware of.


So what is generating this huge amount of data being stuck into System Restore over such a short period of time? (Is it any wonder that my HD at times, seems to run incessantly)? And what actually is in those files?


PS: If you dual boot, XP & Vista, because the System Restore in each OS work differently, one is not recognized by the other, & XP will delete any Restore Points created by Vista. (I gather that Vista is XP aware, but XP is not Vista aware).

Hey Steve, if you buy vista, ya better make all your hardware upgrades ahead of time. They will only allow two hardware updrades and then buy a new license.
If I end up getting it, it will be for my laptop which needs no hardware updating.

I believe MS has backed off on that restriction.

The questions was ... Will Acronis True Image 7.0 (a few generation older version of ATI) run on Vista?

Quote:

I have a feeling that it won't work with Vista. Hope I'm wrong on that.

You're right, you're wrong ;-).


Installs.
Windows Defender asks for permissions or something or the other.
Reboot doesn't complain.


Not so fast, slick.

You're right (period) :-).


You though you were slick didn't you :-(.

"This program has known compatibility issues".

Run (anyhow)!

E000101F4: Not enough privileges. You do not have enough privileges to start Acronis True Image. OK.


That said, the program is there, it opens.

Create Image. -> Next ...

E000101F4: Not enough privileges. You do not have enough privileges to start Acronis True Image. OK.


Right-click shortcut, Run as administrator ...
UAC -> Allow
"This program has known compatibility issues".
Run (anyhow)!


WOW! A BIG BSOD.
A problem has been detected & Windows has been shut down to prevent damage to your computer.

REFERENCE_BY_POINTER
*** STOP: (0x00000018) (0xBAD0B0B0, 0x93128B08, 0x00000002, 0xFFFFFFFF)

Reset button.
Start Windows Normally.
Windows has recovered from an unexpected shutown.
Click, Check for solution. Dialog disappears.
Uninstall TrueImage 7.
This program has known compatibility issues.
Run (anyhow)! (This is the (un)installer that is now saying this).
WOW! A BIG BSOD.


Ha! So once it's installed, might be a little tough to uninstall.


Reboot.
Start Windows Normally.
No dialog message this time.
Uninstall TrueImage 7.
Do you wish to completely remove Acronis True Image ... YES.
This program has known compatibility issues.
Run (anyhow)!
WOW! A BIG BSOD.


Reboot.
Start Windows Normally.
No dialog message this time.


System Restore.
12/5/2006 7:21:15 PM Install: Windows Update
12/5/2006 2:00:04 AM System: Windows Backup
(3 other restore points, all dated 12/4/2006)


Now that gives me a great deal of information to work with.
Pot luck, right.
I go with the 7:21:15.
! You must restore the disk that contains your Windows system files. Restoring other disks is optional.
(Hmmm. Now what does that mean? I'll just hit the Help button. Oops, no Help button.)
(Note. Local Disk (C: ) (System), shows, Not enough free space to restore the disk)
(But am I supposed to check something or not?)
Don't do anything, just hit Next>
! Some disks on your computer were not included in this restore point. Any system files & settings on those disks will not be restored. (Big deal).
Finish.
X System Restore did not complete successfully. Your computer's system files & settings were not changed.
Details: The parameter is incorrect. (0x80070057)


Run System Restore.
Next (select default).
Finish.
System goes through its restore - oddly enough, in Windows.
When it completes, system automatically reboots.
! System restore completed successfully. The system has been restored to 12/5/2006 7:21:15 PM.


You tell me, did I do something wrong the first time I attempted the Restore?


=======


So, the answer to your question is, no, it will not turn in Vista.

Now I don't really have any problem with any of the above.
At no point was I locked out of the system.
I don't anticipate having problems due to the fact that I had installed Acronis.
(But that doesn't know mean I wouldn't have/won't run into problems?)


The Acronis installation directory is still there.
Expected.
I had installed it into my F: drive in any case.

Acronis does not show in Programs & Features.
Expected.

Acronis does not show in the Registry.
Kind of unexpected.

No Acronis "services" appear to be running.
MSCONFIG only shows two non-Microsoft services.
F-Prot Antivirus, correct, & (Symantec) LiveUpdate shows as Stopped. Though I would have expected that to have been gone long ago when I uninstalled Symantec Antivirus (the only Symantec app I had installed).

Start Menu Acronis entry is there, but only with a link to the Acronis website.
No big deal.


So, all in all, System Restore seems to have done its' job.

Sun of a gun!

Google Desktop is back?!
But I had uninstalled that piece of drek!

And my Windows Defender just brought down a new (old) update.

I guess that's what you pay for in using System Restore.


BUT, maybe, just maybe, if System Restore gave more information, or was able to provide more granular restore points, I could have selected the time after I had uninstalled Google Desktop, & after I had installed the Defender updates ... In any case, I would have expected "this evenings" restore point not to have affected those items - which were uninstalled/updated day(s) ago?

Or maybe I hadn't yet rebooted after uninstalling Google Desktop - I'm not sure if I did or didn't?

Just a link to my other little thread:

"VISTA - What A Humdinger Of An OS!"
http://www.pcqanda.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=2&topic_id=425753

Why you may ask did this come up?

Because I was looking for the SendTo directory!
And why can't I find it!
Try using Windows Explorer & see if you can find where it is!

I knew I had written about it before.
(Happens to be in the other thread - no peaking!)

See if you can find it using Search, or just browsing around!
(It's in a most logical location after all!)

GRRRR!