Just received in my mailbox


The college professor challenged the class with this question. "Did God make everything there is?"



One student bravely answered, "Yes!"



"Everything, young man?"



"Yes, he did, sir," the young man replied.



The professor responded, "If God made everything, then God made evil,
and if we can only create from within ourselves, then God is evil."



The student didn't have a response and the professor was happy to have
once again proved the Christian faith to be a myth.



Then another man raised his hand and asked, "May I ask you something,
sir?"



"Yes, you may," responded the professor.



The young man stood up and said "Sir, is there such thing as cold?"



"Of course there is, what kind of a question is that? Haven't you ever been cold?"



The young man replied, "Actually, sir, cold does not exist. What we
consider to be cold, is really only the absence of heat. Absolute zero
is when there is absolutely no heat, but cold does not really exist. We
have only created that term to describe how we feel when heat is not there."



The young man continued, "Sir, is there such thing as dark?"



Once again, the professor responded "Of course there is."



And once again, the student replied. "Actually, sir, darkness does not
exist. Darkness is really only the absence of light. Darkness is only a term
man developed to describe what happens when there is no light present."



Finally, the young man asked, "Sir, is there such thing as evil?"



The professor responded, "Of course. We have rapes, and murders and violence

everywhere in the world, those things are evil."



The student replied, "Actually, sir, evil does not exist. Evil is simply
the absence of God. Evil is a term man developed to describe the absence of God.
God did not create evil. It isn't like truth, or love, which exist as virtues
like heat and light. Evil is simply the state where God is not present, like
cold without heat or darkness without light."



The professor had nothing to say.

He wouldn't be much of a professor if he was stopped by a silly circular argument like that, so obviously the story is apocryphal propaganda.

Shelly

I majored in Philosophy in college (big mistake, when's the last time you saw a help wanted ad that said, Wanted: Philosopher, minimum two years experience) and there I learned that logic can prove anything, even opposite truths. One professor showed us, using a logical argument, that there absolutely must be a God and, using another logical argument, that there couldn’t possibly be a God. What did I get out of all this? If there is a Creator (hate to use "God", too religious), the Creator is "beyond" logic and cannot be shown to exist, unless you have a personal "religious" revelation but you still cannot prove that to another person, plus it raises the question are you mentally stable or were you just overcome with emotion. Me, I personally believe that She exists but I don’t give two hoots about trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking (if only religious people were that way).

Acadia

I don't feel that jujet84 was trying to push his religious beliefs on us. He just posted something he thought was clever, or pleasing to him. Big deal!

Acadia, a little side issue. I noticed you labeled GOD as SHE and, of course, God has always been labeled HE through the centuries.

Only these days do we consider that GOD could be other than HE. Jesus was a male and one might expect that a logical extention would lead to God being HE....

My thoughts on this would be that perhaps GOD represents a state of being or existance, neither male or female or even human as we know human beings.

Perhaps an energy source without corporal attachment.......

Nor do I mean "beings from other planets" which would limit GOD to a "being from another planet".......

I am not necessarily subscribing to this, just something to toss out...

>Acadia, a little side issue. I noticed you labeled GOD as SHE

Just pure fun. I certainly do not believe that the Creator has a penis or a vagina. I believe that pure Energy, Light, Spirit, whatever, is far beyond gross physical description.

Acadia.

Whew, never thought of God in those terms. Akk

I know a lot of people who insist that God is male (and probably white).

Acadia.

>I know a lot of people who insist that God is male (and
>probably white).
>
>Acadia.


Which God? The Muslim God? The Hindu God? And a host of other Gods.

Guns don't kill people. Husbands who come home early kill people.

Most of the people I know are Christian, so for them it would be the Christian God.


Acadia

"God has always been labeled HE through the centuries."
"Only these days do we consider that GOD could be other than HE."

Wrong-o ol' man of the sea. The Gods have been both male and female for a lot longer than any conception of there only being one male God.

The truth is that only these days (relatively speaking in the time of human history) do we consider God to only be male.

--------------
History teaches us that history has taught us nothing.

Myk,

and that, of course, was the context of my comment...... I was jousting with Acadia and we found out we were of a mind with no contest......

It is only possible to have ONE Supreme Being. This is LOGIC, belief can ONLY follow logic.

Therefore I can only believe in ONE Supreme Being, God Creator and God Redeemer.

Hello Old Dude,

"My thoughts on this would be that perhaps GOD represents a state of being or existance, neither male or female or even human as we know human beings."

"Perhaps an energy source without corporal attachment......."

God made manifest. See: the Burning Bush

"Nor do I mean "beings from other planets" which would limit GOD to a "being from another planet"......."

Right again. The God of everywhere, Omnipresent throughout the Universe, AND beyond, into the Sea of Energy of the Noun. Difficult to grasp this possibly, but the thoughts of God are instantaneous, everywhere at the same time. God is as much in touch with himself as with everyone else. All seeing and All knowing. See: Thot

"I am not necessarily subscribing to this, just something to toss out..."

I must have missed this post, but it is perfect.

We know from the roots of our Egyptian based belief system that Creation occurred in an Infinite and Eternal indestructible Sea of Energy known as the Noun (Pronounced Noon, and I will use this spelling as it is easier to pronounce, and otherwise you would be thinking in terms of verbs & nouns, etc.)

Thermodynamics and the energy equation bear this out as ENERGY can neither be created nor destroyed by the hand of man.

GOD too can neither be created nor destroyed by man, and just as well, as then He could not be Eternal. So we can see that the energy which was already there before Creation is like God Who was also always there before Creation, otherwise He could not have been there to Create!

Just as there are men and women, male and female, there are gods and godesses, small g, the Big G being reserved for GOD and, of course His Own Goddess.

If we now look at Egypt, there we can see ALL of the deified "Aspects" of Creation, built as a model of what is ACTUALLY happening and how everything fits together perfectly.

Starting with "The Council of Nine" (God is represented by Zero, 0, being the Tenth "Aspect") we then see the basic description of Creation including atoms, molecules and male and female, plus the progression of man from human to superhuman god. Man and Superman. (As represented by the Sphinx.)

The Nine Aspects are, Atum, Shu, Tefnut, Geb, Nut, Isis, Osiris, Set & Nethys. These last four are upon the Earth and are descriptive of behaviour.

(Geb = The Earth (masculine aspect) and Nut = The Sky, or "Heavens" (feminine aspect.)

Atum is representative of an atom.

Shu is the masculine Aspect and male god, but not Supreme God.

Tefnut is the female Aspect and feminine goddess, but not Supreme Goddess.

Married gods and goddesses are the Shu-Tefnut, Super-Men & Super-Women formed from the initial or initiate Osiris-Isis lovers sorely tried by the murderous Set and the Jealous Nethys, simply a description of human misbehaviour tending to the criminal.

This Shu-Tefnut marriage bond is also representative of two atoms joined as a molecule, so the Original Trinity of Creation consists of three representations of the atom, Atum, Shu & Tefnut where Atum is also representative of The Creator being above the other two.

In nature this combination is best described by Ozone being three atoms of oxygen, consisting of one molecule of oxygen joined with an additional single atom of oxygen.

If you draw an equilateral triangle then Atum is at the top and Shu-Tefnut across the bottom. Shu-Tefnut are joined by a double bond, their love for each other; in the more Ethereal presence of God, depicted as Atum, being singly bonded to both of them.

So it is THIS which is The Original Trinity. Now to attempt to translate this picture into the religious trinity of Father, Son and Sacred Spirit or Ghost. NOT easy, as it will require a great deal of understanding.

Rather than keep the All-Seeing and All-Knowing Aspects of "The God Presence" separate as the deified Adpects of Horus, The All-Seeing Eye of God, and Thot (thought) The All-Knowing mind of God, these two were combined into the Sacred Spirit. A big mistake in my opinion as these aspects are easier to consider separately.

This has unfortunately given rise to a male dominated religious structure which bears precious little resemblence to the original.

Now we have Father (male) Son (male), Horus (male)together with Thot (male) and scant regard for goddesses who are the other half of the Shu-Tefnut, Male-Female, God-Goddess, Super-Man plus Super-Woman Eternal bond.

So you may see that I prefer the Original Trinity, as it is much more scientific, dealing with atoms, biology, and Eternal Love in the presence of God.

A clear Enlightened scientific understanding, free of sectarian wrangling and violence.

So Old Dude is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. God is an energy form, Eternal & Indestructible, Who "was" always here, long before Creation, and Who will always be here, Omnipresent, all of the time. So is His Goddess and so are the Gods and Goddesses whom He has brought into being, Eternal and Indestructible. That they ARE Lovers is clearly the case. Very beautiful really! (Beatification.)

The Second Law of Thermodynamics clearly implies that "Nothing can get hotter by itself." so there HAS TO BE an External Force to provide the "impetus" and also to "disturb" or Create within a Sea of Energy which was in a state of calm, (Still waters).

It is within these still Waters of The Eternal Sea of Energy of The Noun that Creation took place.

Going back a little. "Married gods and goddesses are the Shu-Tefnut, Super-Men & Super-Women ... " ... and there are two states of being here, godliness within men and women within a corporeal body "Real" and Godliness within Supermen and Superwomen in a refined state of "beatification" having been "purified" into a non-corporeal state, clearly still manifest but obviously not in the same state of being.

It is known that GOD has Manifested Himself before man and before now. So, as He is always here, then where is He?

To See or not to See, that is the Real question. Or are the blind still leading the blind?

We shall see.

Thank you "Old Dude"

These youngsters don't know as much as they think they do, but YOU do.

So do I.

And there ARE ... MANY ... more who do too.

Quite so, as "religious" people spend all of their time "converting" people from one "religion" to another, instead of all believing in the same God Creator, God Redeemer.

God did make everything, even those who choose to do evil. God does not make anybody do evil. He gives everybody freewill, the ability to disobey him if they so choose.

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.





PC Specs
Garbru

:clap: Thks tpkdave

Everyone seemed to forget that was a joke. Oh, well, anyway,

According to scripture, God does create evil.


Isa. 4 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Bill K.

I've never yet understood why people refer to writings in the bible. Certainly there are many good rules there for civilizations that have been written down..

Why would any of us presume that these are actual utterances from a supreme being???

It's a history, a guide, a prediction of human behavior based on observations made by people that took the time to observe what people do and the consequences of those actions.....

much of it based on the times and the then present day knowledge of humankind.

I doubt that a supreme being sat down one day like Atrus and wrote in his MYST book the rules of engagement for life on Earth like a SIMS game for supreme beings....

a penal code for humanity

>I've never yet understood why people refer to writings in the
>bible. Certainly there are many good rules there for
>civilizations that have been written down..
>




2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
2Ti 3:17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.


PC Specs
Garbru

Perhaps to give this another perspective, it's commonly believed that much of what is now considered scripture, was told around campfires by shepherds and travellers long (perhaps many generations) before it was ever written down anywhere. Especially much of what is referred to as the Old Testament. Early Christians (A.D.) also weeded their way through the scriptures to decide what would be cannonized as Holy Writ and what would hit the "Recycle Bin". The Bible certainly wasn't written in one single sitting, nor was it written by any single hand. That's not to say that the inspiriation didn't come from a central point, however. Pretty much, it's up to the individual to decide what & whether they believe or not when all is said and done.

>All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching,
>for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

Does that also include the Bhagavad Gita, the Koran, the Tao Te Ching, Buddha's Suttras, the poems of Kabir, etc. or just the scripture of your particular religion?

(To the followers of all those other scriptures, I probably spelled about half of them wrong, I apologize)

Acadia.

a SIMS game for supreme beings....

Now you've started a whole new train of thought :-D

We are not the first sentient beings in the current reality and God would exist outside physics and any intrusion into this reality would cause massive rifts to accomodate his presence.

Something lit the big bang's fuse.

Free will makes the issue complex for human civilization, hive civilizations are simple with no disorder as each being works within DNA constraints and hive protocol enforced in many ways.

Under Construction

Let there be Light, Love, Warmth and Peace, so that Good may overcome evil and that satan may be expelled from the Kingdom of Heaven.

Heaven is for Love and Lovers, not for evil wrong-doers. There is NO Righteousness in wrong-doing.

IC

So if all people believe in the same God why do they pray on different days?

As the Sun is the manifestation of His Creation should not ALL people observe the SAME Sabbath day, Sun-day?

As everyone comes from the same act of Creation why is there any difference?

All human beings are the same.

>Free will makes the issue complex for human civilization,
>hive civilizations are simple with no disorder as each being
>works within DNA constraints and hive protocol enforced in
>many ways.

If hive protocol has to be enforced, then one of the bees, (or more) is doing something against the order of the DNA constraints. Is this a form of free will or evil in the hive?

What you mean is you don't know.

>What you mean is you don't know.

Of course I know. The question was just subtle sarcasm.

Geo Carlin:
If god is all-powerful can he make a rock that he himself cannot lift?

Reminds me of that rascally "Q" on Star Trek.

There is a forest in an acorn.

All I want to know is....
Which God is sending me to which hell?

>All I want to know is....
>Which God is sending me to which hell?


DOH! dont take it lightly, there really is a hell and many people wind up there

check this site out
http://www.av1611.org/hell.html

PC Specs
Garbru

Don't believe everything you read on the internet

Shelly

Hell is a religious concept. Not an Angelic one. Angels have no religion as they already know of God.

The people of the Earth do not know of God for they do not understand that in real life Heaven is ON the Earth. Hell is when you are not ON Heaven i.e. buried.

You cannot be dead and ON Heaven at the same time, unless you are RE-Born.

"Jesus Christ" walked ON the solidified "waters" of Creation the Energy for this Creation is that of the Eternal and Infinite Sea of Energy, which like God Himself has always existed (Eternal = Always)

This Sea of Energy was, long ago, know to the Egyptians as the Nun or Noun (pronounced noon).

Hence Pyramids, Christmas Trees, Three Wise Men, Stars, "Per Ardua ad Astra, and The Great Ennead, or Council of Nine, being the Nine Aspects of Creation namely:

Atum, Shu, Tefnut, Geb, Nut, Osiris, Isis, Set, Nepthys.

And, stupidly, Satan, a later invention. Bad enough with Set murdering Osiris out of jealousy for Isis.

Atum is also representative of an atom and the Shu-Tefnut paring is that of the Lovers Bond AND of a molecule.

The All-Seeing Eye of Horus is the All-Seeing Eye of God and the All-Knowing mind of Thot IS the All-Knowing mind of God (Thought).

If you want more then you should know that I loved Isis and was murdered by the jealousy of SMALL minded idiots and a dummy.

What Christianity TRIED to teach people, was to have ONE child and to be NICE to each other can be done by science in one lesson on Thermodynamics and the lot of you are just wasting my time with your pseudo-religious prattle.

Dummies are for babies and Egypt is the ONLY true RE-Legion on Earth and ON Heaven.

Chattan,

I have refrained from answering you until now, but your fundamentalist philosophical crap is getting really tiring!

Be advised that there are members here of every religious persuasion, including no religion, and we don't need you rubbing everyones nose in your narrow minded views. This is a public forum, not a church, and to the best of my knowledge, we have not appointed you our preacher. We do not need you ramming your views down our collective throats at every opportunity.

You are welcome to your beliefs, but you would be serving them better if you kept your own council. You are only causing resentment among many of us. We don't care what you believe.

If you feel unable to respect the individual religious beliefs of all of our members, I am confident there are other websites that would welcome your participation.

Shelly

My friend Jeff had this to say:

Chattan sounds almost certainly to be a member of some sort of highly indoctrinated group of cultists with some very "special" revelations. Change some of the terminology and he could be most any LFFer (*note*: LFF, or Living Faith Fellowship, is a local non-denominational church that has been listed on several lists as satisfying all the prereq's for being considered a cult. There methods of indoctrination and abuse are well documented) or other insular religious groupie. An important part of what these people use to justify and reinforce their belief system (I use that term in the broadest sense) is public "testimony." They subject themselves with deliberately provocative language to public derision and this reinforces their need for persecution to substantiate the "rightness" of their positions. Its not about the logic but the reaction they get. In my opinion, the best thing to do with these guys is to ignore them and deny them what they most want.

Nail, meet head.

I think he's waiting for "Ti and Do" to come back in their spaceship and get him!

You know, I don't really like getting involved with religious arguements because even though I am a Christian, I do respect other peoples personal beliefs (even though some people's choices are a little misguided). But after reading Chatten's post #29, I have to say that nothing in that post made any sense. It was complete jibberish with absolutely no merit or meaning. All you did was have fun copying and pasting it from a bunch of fanatical websites. I actually hope you did copy and paste it because if you actually came up with that hogwash on your own, GOD help you.

Sorry Robbie, but it only all goes to show that the vast majority of people know little about their own origins.

And you are one of them.

--------------
History teaches us that history has taught us nothing.

>And you are one of them.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

Acadia

Some of the stuff he says sounds like Scientology to me. Then again, I don't know enough about Scientology to make that assessment for certain.

There's no difference between what Chattan believes and what every other half-baked pseudo-historian/etymologist/theologin has said. Bullshit about fucking planets colliding, weird shit about Egypt that is contrary to scientific fact (and mathematics, which Chattan would like to believe he has a firm grasp of), and a healthy serving "go ahead and tell me I'm wrong, because it's being abused and flamed that will get me to heaven" to boot.

I don't care what Chattan thinks about god, I do care that he likes to lie about history and science, that he creates facts that fit his needs and desires, and seems to believe that he is the next Messiah. Observe, he stated in this or one of his other rambling threads that he had loved Isis. Right, and I once spooned with Aprhodite.

"That will ... get ... you ... to ... Heaven." You are living ON it and IN it right now! Unless crazy people make it into a hell.

Hence the one child Christian example and, "Father forgive them, they know not what they do."

What are you going to do in this nebulous Heaven of yours? Play a harp sitting on a cloud maybe?

Get Real.

>Unless crazy people make it into a
>hell.

When I get around to writing my "Good Psycho Guide", this post is going to get at least 4 and a half chainsaws.

I prefer the wOOts!

"I once spooned with Aprhodite"

Pretty hot chick huh? But haven't we all?

--------------
History teaches us that history has taught us nothing.

I thought there was someone else in the room. Damn two-timing whore. And then there's Aphrodite!

So if you believe in God this is cult membership?

Your friend is a strange fellow.

I believe in God Shelly. And I respect ALL others who do too.

>I believe in God Shelly. And I respect ALL others who do
>too.

Which is saying you do not respect anyone who does not believe in God, or at least in your fundamentalist definition of God. Every person has the right to their own beliefs, so long as they harm no one else. As with most fanatics, you are a bigot by your own admission.

Shelly

I think that believers all have their own personal God. As much as each of us is an individual, so is our God.

My God would like us to use our gifts to enhance one another and ourselves.

sophie

That is a very good comment, if we can ... clearly ... see that we all share the same God and the same ideal.

This falls in with the Caring & Sharing belief of a global community of people who help each other.

It is also against those who care only for themselves or who have a separate agenda.

So you are saying that if a criminal commits a crime against another person because he does NOT believe in God then you still respect them.

"Every person has the right to their own beliefs, so long as they harm no one else."

I see you have trouble understanding what you read. That is not surprising.

In the long, sad, history of human kind, far more atrocities have been committed by those who believe in your self righteous crap than by all the non believers that ever lived. The crimes of those who were certain they knew the "one true way" are legion.

Shelly

But I am a Freethinker Shelly. I do NOT believe in one true way, only in one God.

God has NO religion. And I know of no god who prays to himself.

That is why I do not believe in religion.

Anyway I don't remember Christ committing a crime against anyone.

But many have in His name! That can not be denied. And that is certainly not unique to those that are Christian, it is common in every religious belief system, monotheistic and pagan. It is one of the less attractive aspects of human nature, rooted in unquestioned belief.

I too believe in God, though you might not find my view of God recognizable. I also believe in science and and in an unending search for knowledge, and that search has caused me to reevaluate my belief system all my life. Some people are enlightened by their beliefs, and others are blinded by them. I will instantly discard or modify any of my beliefs that fails to stand up to provable fact as I see it.

Shelly

I have NEVER known ANYONE commit a crime in the name of Christ. But there are MANY who have commited crime in the name of God.

Those who commit crimes against each other in the name of God are, obviously, hypocrites.

So, you never heard of the Crusades, or the Inquisition?

Shelly

False Christians, like false gods.

That has nothing to do with your ridiculous assertion in your post # 91.

"I have NEVER known ANYONE commit a crime in the name of Christ."

Shelly

But Shelly, the Christian Christ equates with Osiris. Set murdered Osiris, Cain murders Able. They did so out of ... JEALOUSY.

It would appear that reading your posts is a futile exercise, since your words mean only what you want them to mean at any given moment. Not only does the meaning of your words change from post to post, the meaning changes in the same post according to your momentary whim. Since your words are without any value, neither are your opinions. You are merely a blowhard buffoon, lacking substance, intellectual honesty, or educated foundation. You are, in short, a waste of time to attempt a discourse with.

I have only toyed with you here to expose you for the charlatan you are, and I think by this time everyone here understands that Chattan = charlatan.

Shelly

"Since your words are without any value, neither are your opinions."

You see how easy it is to achieve a common understanding.

Friendly advice from this forum.

What value shall we attach to your own commentary?

Actually they never did commit a crime in the name of Christ. But they did commit crimes in the name of God.

Had all people been true Christians they would have followed the Ten Commandments and NOT committed ANY crimes against each other.

The student replied, "Actually, sir, evil does not exist. Evil is simply the absence of God. Evil is a term man developed to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. It isn't like truth, or love, which exist as virtues like heat and light. Evil is simply the state where God is not present, like cold without heat or darkness without light."

God be with you, or, until God sees you, AuREvoir.

Study some history before making foolish statements! The Crusades and the Inquisition were waged wholly in the name of Christianity, not God. They were to protect and expand the church The Crusades were waged against the Muslims, who also worshiped the same God. The Ten Commandments were from Jewish scripture, and predated Christ by thousands of years.

Shelly

" The Ten Commandments were from Jewish scripture, and predated Christ by thousands of years."

This is why the first-born were not killed and Christ was not crucified.

Because they had received the Ten Commandments.

I see.

"So, you never heard of the Crusades, or the Inquisition?"

Not recently I must say. Shall we then consider the Molly Maguire, mad bombers, King Billy and the rest of the non-RE-LEGIOUS lunatic fringe of mad-cap phonies.

I speak of RE-LEGION not religion.

You speak of respect. Why should God respect anyone who does not respect Him?

How would anyone gain Eternal Life if they did not come to know and respect God?

There are far too many who have no respect for anything.

>There are far too many who have no respect for anything.


You should know.

I do Acadia, as I meet them all the time.

Assault against those who were selling in the temple? Selective memory, huh?

Desecrating the Sabbath, contrary to God.

I don't know anyone who does not believe in God. So what you are suggesting is quite wrong.

Meet one. Hi.

Goodbye.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/wellhell.htm

But if the Weekly World News had a report on it, it must be true!

Nice self-portrait, Mason.