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jazz4freeTue Mar-18-08 03:01 PM
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"Obama's answer"


  

          

Something not only Americans but that we all needed to hear.

The New York Times

March 18, 2008
Transcript
Barack Obama’s Speech on Race

The following is the text as prepared for delivery of Senator Barack Obama’s speech on race in Philadelphia, as provided by his presidential campaign.

“We the people, in order to form a more perfect union.”

Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America’s improbable experiment in democracy. Farmers and scholars; statesmen and patriots who had traveled across an ocean to escape tyranny and persecution finally made real their declaration of independence at a Philadelphia convention that lasted through the spring of 1787.

The document they produced was eventually signed but ultimately unfinished. It was stained by this nation’s original sin of slavery, a question that divided the colonies and brought the convention to a stalemate until the founders chose to allow the slave trade to continue for at least twenty more years, and to leave any final resolution to future generations.

Of course, the answer to the slavery question was already embedded within our Constitution – a Constitution that had at is very core the ideal of equal citizenship under the law; a Constitution that promised its people liberty, and justice, and a union that could be and should be perfected over time.

And yet words on a parchment would not be enough to deliver slaves from bondage, or provide men and women of every color and creed their full rights and obligations as citizens of the United States. What would be needed were Americans in successive generations who were willing to do their part – through protests and struggle, on the streets and in the courts, through a civil war and civil disobedience and always at great risk - to narrow that gap between the promise of our ideals and the reality of their time.

This was one of the tasks we set forth at the beginning of this campaign – to continue the long march of those who came before us, a march for a more just, more equal, more free, more caring and more prosperous America. I chose to run for the presidency at this moment in history because I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together – unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction – towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren.

This belief comes from my unyielding faith in the decency and generosity of the American people. But it also comes from my own American story.

I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton’s Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I’ve gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world’s poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners – an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.

It’s a story that hasn’t made me the most conventional candidate. But it is a story that has seared into my genetic makeup the idea that this nation is more than the sum of its parts – that out of many, we are truly one.

Throughout the first year of this campaign, against all predictions to the contrary, we saw how hungry the American people were for this message of unity. Despite the temptation to view my candidacy through a purely racial lens, we won commanding victories in states with some of the whitest populations in the country. In South Carolina, where the Confederate Flag still flies, we built a powerful coalition of African Americans and white Americans.

This is not to say that race has not been an issue in the campaign. At various stages in the campaign, some commentators have deemed me either “too black” or “not black enough.” We saw racial tensions bubble to the surface during the week before the South Carolina primary. The press has scoured every exit poll for the latest evidence of racial polarization, not just in terms of white and black, but black and brown as well.

And yet, it has only been in the last couple of weeks that the discussion of race in this campaign has taken a particularly divisive turn.

On one end of the spectrum, we’ve heard the implication that my candidacy is somehow an exercise in affirmative action; that it’s based solely on the desire of wide-eyed liberals to purchase racial reconciliation on the cheap. On the other end, we’ve heard my former pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, use incendiary language to express views that have the potential not only to widen the racial divide, but views that denigrate both the greatness and the goodness of our nation; that rightly offend white and black alike.

I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely – just as I’m sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren’t simply controversial. They weren’t simply a religious leader’s effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country – a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.

As such, Reverend Wright’s comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems – two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all.

Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way

But the truth is, that isn’t all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God’s work here on Earth – by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.

In my first book, Dreams From My Father, I described the experience of my first service at Trinity:

“People began to shout, to rise from their seats and clap and cry out, a forceful wind carrying the reverend’s voice up into the rafters….And in that single note – hope! – I heard something else; at the foot of that cross, inside the thousands of churches across the city, I imagined the stories of ordinary black people merging with the stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians in the lion’s den, Ezekiel’s field of dry bones. Those stories – of survival, and freedom, and hope – became our story, my story; the blood that had spilled was our blood, the tears our tears; until this black church, on this bright day, seemed once more a vessel carrying the story of a people into future generations and into a larger world. Our trials and triumphs became at once unique and universal, black and more than black; in chronicling our journey, the stories and songs gave us a means to reclaim memories that we didn’t need to feel shame about…memories that all people might study and cherish – and with which we could start to rebuild.”

That has been my experience at Trinity. Like other predominantly black churches across the country, Trinity embodies the black community in its entirety – the doctor and the welfare mom, the model student and the former gang-banger. Like other black churches, Trinity’s services are full of raucous laughter and sometimes bawdy humor. They are full of dancing, clapping, screaming and shouting that may seem jarring to the untrained ear. The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America.

And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions – the good and the bad – of the community that he has served diligently for so many years.

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.

These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love.

Some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. I suppose the politically safe thing would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro, in the aftermath of her recent statements, as harboring some deep-seated racial bias.

But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America – to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality.

The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we’ve never really worked through – a part of our union that we have yet to perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care, or education, or the need to find good jobs for every American.

Understanding this reality requires a reminder of how we arrived at this point. As William Faulkner once wrote, “The past isn’t dead and buried. In fact, it isn’t even past.” We do not need to recite here the history of racial injustice in this country. But we do need to remind ourselves that so many of the disparities that exist in the African-American community today can be directly traced to inequalities passed on from an earlier generation that suffered under the brutal legacy of slavery and Jim Crow.

Segregated schools were, and are, inferior schools; we still haven’t fixed them, fifty years after Brown v. Board of Education, and the inferior education they provided, then and now, helps explain the pervasive achievement gap between today’s black and white students.

Legalized discrimination - where blacks were prevented, often through violence, from owning property, or loans were not granted to African-American business owners, or black homeowners could not access FHA mortgages, or blacks were excluded from unions, or the police force, or fire departments – meant that black families could not amass any meaningful wealth to bequeath to future generations. That history helps explain the wealth and income gap between black and white, and the concentrated pockets of poverty that persists in so many of today’s urban and rural communities.

A lack of economic opportunity among black men, and the shame and frustration that came from not being able to provide for one’s family, contributed to the erosion of black families – a problem that welfare policies for many years may have worsened. And the lack of basic services in so many urban black neighborhoods – parks for kids to play in, police walking the beat, regular garbage pick-up and building code enforcement – all helped create a cycle of violence, blight and neglect that continue to haunt us.

This is the reality in which Reverend Wright and other African-Americans of his generation grew up. They came of age in the late fifties and early sixties, a time when segregation was still the law of the land and opportunity was systematically constricted. What’s remarkable is not how many failed in the face of discrimination, but rather how many men and women overcame the odds; how many were able to make a way out of no way for those like me who would come after them.

But for all those who scratched and clawed their way to get a piece of the American Dream, there were many who didn’t make it – those who were ultimately defeated, in one way or another, by discrimination. That legacy of defeat was passed on to future generations – those young men and increasingly young women who we see standing on street corners or languishing in our prisons, without hope or prospects for the future. Even for those blacks who did make it, questions of race, and racism, continue to define their worldview in fundamental ways. For the men and women of Reverend Wright’s generation, the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years. That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends. But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table. At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician’s own failings.

And occasionally it finds voice in the church on Sunday morning, in the pulpit and in the pews. The fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Reverend Wright’s sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour in American life occurs on Sunday morning. That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change. But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races.

In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don’t feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience – as far as they’re concerned, no one’s handed them anything, they’ve built it from scratch. They’ve worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they’re told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren’t always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation. Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.

Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze – a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many. And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns – this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding.

This is where we are right now. It’s a racial stalemate we’ve been stuck in for years. Contrary to the claims of some of my critics, black and white, I have never been so naïve as to believe that we can get beyond our racial divisions in a single election cycle, or with a single candidacy – particularly a candidacy as imperfect as my own.

But I have asserted a firm conviction – a conviction rooted in my faith in God and my faith in the American people – that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice is we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union.

For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past. It means continuing to insist on a full measure of justice in every aspect of American life. But it also means binding our particular grievances – for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs - to the larger aspirations of all Americans -- the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man whose been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family. And it means taking full responsibility for own lives – by demanding more from our fathers, and spending more time with our children, and reading to them, and teaching them that while they may face challenges and discrimination in their own lives, they must never succumb to despair or cynicism; they must always believe that they can write their own destiny.

Ironically, this quintessentially American – and yes, conservative – notion of self-help found frequent expression in Reverend Wright’s sermons. But what my former pastor too often failed to understand is that embarking on a program of self-help also requires a belief that society can change.

The profound mistake of Reverend Wright’s sermons is not that he spoke about racism in our society. It’s that he spoke as if our society was static; as if no progress has been made; as if this country – a country that has made it possible for one of his own members to run for the highest office in the land and build a coalition of white and black; Latino and Asian, rich and poor, young and old -- is still irrevocably bound to a tragic past. But what we know -- what we have seen – is that America can change. That is true genius of this nation. What we have already achieved gives us hope – the audacity to hope – for what we can and must achieve tomorrow.

In the white community, the path to a more perfect union means acknowledging that what ails the African-American community does not just exist in the minds of black people; that the legacy of discrimination - and current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past - are real and must be addressed. Not just with words, but with deeds – by investing in our schools and our communities; by enforcing our civil rights laws and ensuring fairness in our criminal justice system; by providing this generation with ladders of opportunity that were unavailable for previous generations. It requires all Americans to realize that your dreams do not have to come at the expense of my dreams; that investing in the health, welfare, and education of black and brown and white children will ultimately help all of America prosper.

In the end, then, what is called for is nothing more, and nothing less, than what all the world’s great religions demand – that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Let us be our brother’s keeper, Scripture tells us. Let us be our sister’s keeper. Let us find that common stake we all have in one another, and let our politics reflect that spirit as well.

For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle – as we did in the OJ trial – or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina - or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright’s sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she’s playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

We can do that.

But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we’ll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.

That is one option. Or, at this moment, in this election, we can come together and say, “Not this time.” This time we want to talk about the crumbling schools that are stealing the future of black children and white children and Asian children and Hispanic children and Native American children. This time we want to reject the cynicism that tells us that these kids can’t learn; that those kids who don’t look like us are somebody else’s problem. The children of America are not those kids, they are our kids, and we will not let them fall behind in a 21st century economy. Not this time.

This time we want to talk about how the lines in the Emergency Room are filled with whites and blacks and Hispanics who do not have health care; who don’t have the power on their own to overcome the special interests in Washington, but who can take them on if we do it together.

This time we want to talk about the shuttered mills that once provided a decent life for men and women of every race, and the homes for sale that once belonged to Americans from every religion, every region, every walk of life. This time we want to talk about the fact that the real problem is not that someone who doesn’t look like you might take your job; it’s that the corporation you work for will ship it overseas for nothing more than a profit.

This time we want to talk about the men and women of every color and creed who serve together, and fight together, and bleed together under the same proud flag. We want to talk about how to bring them home from a war that never should’ve been authorized and never should’ve been waged, and we want to talk about how we’ll show our patriotism by caring for them, and their families, and giving them the benefits they have earned.

I would not be running for President if I didn’t believe with all my heart that this is what the vast majority of Americans want for this country. This union may never be perfect, but generation after generation has shown that it can always be perfected. And today, whenever I find myself feeling doubtful or cynical about this possibility, what gives me the most hope is the next generation – the young people whose attitudes and beliefs and openness to change have already made history in this election.

There is one story in particularly that I’d like to leave you with today – a story I told when I had the great honor of speaking on Dr. King’s birthday at his home church, Ebenezer Baptist, in Atlanta.

There is a young, twenty-three year old white woman named Ashley Baia who organized for our campaign in Florence, South Carolina. She had been working to organize a mostly African-American community since the beginning of this campaign, and one day she was at a roundtable discussion where everyone went around telling their story and why they were there.

And Ashley said that when she was nine years old, her mother got cancer. And because she had to miss days of work, she was let go and lost her health care. They had to file for bankruptcy, and that’s when Ashley decided that she had to do something to help her mom.

She knew that food was one of their most expensive costs, and so Ashley convinced her mother that what she really liked and really wanted to eat more than anything else was mustard and relish sandwiches. Because that was the cheapest way to eat.

She did this for a year until her mom got better, and she told everyone at the roundtable that the reason she joined our campaign was so that she could help the millions of other children in the country who want and need to help their parents too.

Now Ashley might have made a different choice. Perhaps somebody told her along the way that the source of her mother’s problems were blacks who were on welfare and too lazy to work, or Hispanics who were coming into the country illegally. But she didn’t. She sought out allies in her fight against injustice.

Anyway, Ashley finishes her story and then goes around the room and asks everyone else why they’re supporting the campaign. They all have different stories and reasons. Many bring up a specific issue. And finally they come to this elderly black man who’s been sitting there quietly the entire time. And Ashley asks him why he’s there. And he does not bring up a specific issue. He does not say health care or the economy. He does not say education or the war. He does not say that he was there because of Barack Obama. He simply says to everyone in the room, “I am here because of Ashley.”

“I’m here because of Ashley.” By itself, that single moment of recognition between that young white girl and that old black man is not enough. It is not enough to give health care to the sick, or jobs to the jobless, or education to our children.

But it is where we start. It is where our union grows stronger. And as so many generations have come to realize over the course of the two-hundred and twenty one years since a band of patriots signed that document in Philadelphia, that is where the perfection begins.

  

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ablibTue Mar-18-08 03:11 PM
Member since Mar 04th 2002
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#1. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 0)


  

          

You know how much I hate reading...so I'm anxiously awaiting the speech today.

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeTue Mar-18-08 03:34 PM
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#2. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to ablib (Reply # 1)


  

          

It was delivered at eleven this morning.

  

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ablibTue Mar-18-08 03:45 PM
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#3. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 2)


  

          

I have to wait until I get home. How was it?

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeTue Mar-18-08 03:50 PM
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#4. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to ablib (Reply # 3)


  

          

Pretty damn good!

  

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OwbistTue Mar-18-08 04:46 PM
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#5. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 4)


  

          

Quote:
Pretty damn good!


Pretty damn good? I thought it was brilliant. Very well thought out and presented. Adam don't be so lazy and read the stuff. This is YOUR country the man is on about!

  

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ablibTue Mar-18-08 04:57 PM
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#6. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Owbist (Reply # 5)


  

          

I don't need to read it when I can see it. He's an excellent speaker. Not seeing it would be missing half of it.

Visit the Basement

  

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ShellyTue Mar-18-08 07:05 PM
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#9. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to ablib (Reply # 6)
Tue Mar-18-08 07:08 PM by Shelly

  

          

You are so wrong! I always make a point of reading important speeches. I read speeches that were given decades or centuries before I even existed. Listening may offer you the theatrics, but in the process of being so entertained, you will inevitably miss half the content. The brain can not process full understanding with only the ear, the eye allows the brain to absorb at its own pace. That is why universities have libraries, not just tape players. The wise man listens and reads, the uninformed just listen.

If you listen to a speech and then read it, you will quickly realize that you have experienced two very different speeches. That is why the NYT publishes the full text of every important speech. That is what made it the newspaper of record, and why it is read by leaders all over the world.

Shelly

  

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peterbFri Mar-21-08 07:38 PM
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#55. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 9)
Fri Mar-21-08 08:05 PM by peterb

          

"The wise man listens and reads, the uninformed just listen."

With all due respect then why did you see these two posts as different after "reading" them and then "chose" not to acknowledge that they were indeed the same when some outside of your "inner circle" called you on it?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/ptech/03/13/factory.installed.virus.ap/index.html
http://www.pcqanda.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=2&topic_id=477576&mesg_id=477576&page=3

  

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ShellySat Mar-22-08 01:20 AM
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#56. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to peterb (Reply # 55)


  

          

That should be obvious to anyone with half s brain. The posts were on different forums and from different sources. If I had your brilliance I might read every post in every forum before I post anything. Unfortunately, I lack the time. I monitor this site from home and work. From work I often get interrupted in middle of writing a post and can't actually post it for several hours, when it is completed.

When I finally did see the other post languishing at the bottom of the active page with no replies, I modified the title to bring it to the top and clarify what it was about so people would read it Since the post was computer related it should have been posted in the computer forum where I had posted mine.

Shelly

  

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peterbSat Mar-22-08 01:27 AM
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#57. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 56)
Sat Mar-22-08 01:44 AM by peterb

          

Then why the attitude (So!)to the member that tried pointing out in a friendly manner that this had already been posted??? It appears to me that even a "Rocket Scientist" with an apparent "Full Brain" prefers to jump on others rather than simply admit a mistake by humbling himself and saying Thank you!

  

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mlangdnThu Mar-20-08 07:26 AM
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#26. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 4)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:
Pretty damn good!


What about this part?

Quote:
I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.


Would not our European or Australian friends take exception to this remark? That Obama Kool-Aid must be strong.

It was a good speech, but he made mistakes. And now, after the fact, he will have to clarify once again what he meant. But that's no different for anyone that utters words.

  

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JohnnyRebThu Mar-20-08 09:09 AM
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#28. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to mlangdn (Reply # 26)
Thu Mar-20-08 09:10 AM by JohnnyReb

  

          

Quote:

I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.

Would not our European or Australian friends take exception to this remark? That Obama Kool-Aid must be strong.


No. Most people understand that he is speaking to a specific audience, and that is the kind of hyperbole that they like to hear.

  

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npmclTue Mar-18-08 06:18 PM
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#7. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 0)


  

          

Impressive. I watched the video accompanying this NYT item, I'd never heard him speak before. Certainly makes a change from the present incumbent.

  

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ablibTue Mar-18-08 06:41 PM
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#8. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 7)


  

          

Ugh, you're killin me. The suspense is killing me.


I read it through, good stuff.

Visit the Basement

  

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baloTue Mar-18-08 07:08 PM
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#10. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 0)


          

This was an outstanding speech that hopefully will begin a dialogue long needed in American race relations. Obama is to be complimented for his loyalty to his minister while condemning his remarks.

I must admit until this speech I was in a quandary as to whom I would vote. At this point in time I would have no problem voting for Barack Obama.

This may have been the best speech ever given on race in America. Hopefully, we can overcome the sound bites of the minister that will, no doubt, continue to be shown in the months ahead and deal with the real problems of our day.

  

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scaramoucheTue Mar-18-08 09:06 PM
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#11. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to balo (Reply # 10)
Tue Mar-18-08 09:07 PM by scaramouche

  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe7wTVbLUU

Ladies and Gentlemen the next President of the US.

Obama hit a grand slam, came back to bat and did it again.



Guns don't kill people. Husbands who come home early kill people.

  

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flmcgWed Mar-19-08 12:16 AM
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#12. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 0)


          

That was a brilliant speech given by an absolutely spellbinding orator. I only wish I could have HEARD it rather than read it. Obama is it. He's my man. He doesn't have any international experience, but neither have MANY other presidential candidates, Senator Clinton among them. Still, he's the best thing out there.

*********
Desktop: Lenovo/Windows 10; Intel Core i5; 16Gb RAM; Firefox 51; Avira Free; Netgear 700 Router

  

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ShellyWed Mar-19-08 12:37 AM
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#13. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to flmcg (Reply # 12)


  

          

Larry, you can watch the entire speech at:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23695322#23691239

Shelly

  

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ablibWed Mar-19-08 01:33 AM
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#14. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 13)


  

          

Many thanks, I was searching for a better quality video.




Now I watch.



Thank you.

Visit the Basement

  

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flmcgWed Mar-19-08 03:13 PM
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#22. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 13)


          

Thank you, Shelly, for that link to the video of the speech.

*********
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EllergreenWed Mar-19-08 08:27 AM
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#15. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 0)


  

          

Wow, what an articulate speaker. Not since JFK have I listened to such clarity.
Just as a point of interest, why, (should he be elected), would he be referred to as the first American Black president when he is 50% caucasian?
Is this P.C. gone askew?

  

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jazz4freeWed Mar-19-08 09:17 AM
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#16. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Ellergreen (Reply # 15)


  

          

Your question opens a complex door into the human psyche regarding both the assignment and acceptance of racial identity.

In the United States, I believe, having but a trace of black Africa in one's ancestry allows that individual to identify (and permits others to identify him or her) with that racial type.

But this can be a dark (no pun intended) area to explore, and since the last time we addressed the subject of race here, things got so silly the thread was locked -- and it's just a remote possibility I don't know what the hell I'm talking about -- maybe, as far as this subject is concerned, it would be wise to tread lightly.

Anyhow, since you did read Obama's speech (IMO the most honest, heartfelt and needed we've heard on the subject since MLK's, "I have a dream..."), you can hardly miss with what and whom he himself chooses to identify.

  

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EllergreenWed Mar-19-08 09:43 AM
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#17. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 16)
Wed Mar-19-08 09:45 AM by Ellergreen

  

          

True James, but I do deplore racial stereotyping



(Edit 'cos of spelling error)

  

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KJTWed Mar-19-08 10:00 AM
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#18. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Ellergreen (Reply # 17)


  

          

Quote:
(Edit 'cos of spelling error)


You should have said "Edit due to spelling error".

Jim.

  

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EllergreenWed Mar-19-08 11:46 AM
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#19. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to KJT (Reply # 18)


  

          

Oops - sob, sob.

  

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jasonlevineWed Mar-19-08 11:55 AM
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#20. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Ellergreen (Reply # 15)


  

          

Actually, there is some question as to whether Obama would be our *first* black President. There have been others whose geneology might qualify them as "black."

From: http://www.diversityinc.com/public/1461.cfm

Quote:
Were there other "black" presidents? Some historians have reason to believe people don't really understand the genealogy of past U.S. Presidents. Research shows at least five U.S. presidents had black ancestors and Thomas Jefferson, the nation's third president, was considered the first black president, according to historian Leroy Vaughn, author of Black People and Their Place in World History.

Vaughn's research shows Jefferson was not the only former black U.S. president. Who were the others? Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge. But why was this unknown? How were they elected president? All five of these presidents never acknowledged their black ancestry.

Jefferson, who served two terms between 1801 and 1809, was described as the "son of a half-breed Indian squaw and a Virginia mulatto father," as stated in Vaughn's findings. Jefferson also was said to have destroyed all documentation attached to his mother, even going to extremes to seize letters written by his mother to other people.

President Andrew Jackson, the nation's seventh president, was in office between 1829 and 1837. Vaughn cites an article written in The Virginia Magazine of History that Jackson was the son of an Irish woman who married a black man. The magazine also stated that Jackson's oldest brother had been sold as a slave.

Lincoln, the nation's 16th president, served between 1861 and 1865. Lincoln was said to have been the illegitimate son of an African man, according to Leroy's findings. Lincoln had very dark skin and coarse hair and his mother allegedly came from an Ethiopian tribe. His heritage fueled so much controversy that Lincoln was nicknamed "Abraham Africanus the First" by his opponents.


Obama would definitely be the first president who openly declares himself to be black. From Jefferson to Lincoln, saying that you were black, or had black ancestry, was not a good way to gain political power. Sometimes it's nice to step back and see all the progress we've made.

- Jason Levine
Please donate to PCQandA!

  

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ShellyWed Mar-19-08 01:49 PM
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#21. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 20)
Wed Mar-19-08 05:19 PM by Shelly

  

          

You need to remember that Presidential politics used to be far more vicious than anything we see today. All kinds of personal attacks were routinely used to discredit and denigrate candidates.

Lincoln in particular was probably the most vilified president in our history by his opponents. There is considerable medical speculation that Lincoln was afflicted with Marfan Syndrome which would go a long way toward explaining his physical appearance

The likelihood of Jefferson really being black is fairly remote. Jefferson had a very rare halotype, that halotype is also consistent with his contemporary relatives. He also had red hair, a recessive genetic trait, and very fair skin color that is associated with red hair.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/true/primer.html

Shelly

  

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spy1Wed Mar-19-08 11:49 PM
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#23. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 0)


          

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/19/obama-web-site-still-carries-new-black-panther-party-endorsement/

"Obama Campaign Removes New Black Panther Party Endorsement From Web Site"

....

The NBPP lists on its Web site a 10-point plan for full employment for black Americans as well as housing, education, free health care and an end to the death penalty.

In addition, it demands slavery reparations, the release of all black prisoners from American jails, trials of blacks only by all-black juries, an end to all black cooperation with police departments, exemption for blacks from the all-volunteer U.S. military and a separate country for African-Americans.

“We believe that Black People should not be forced to fight in the military service to defend a racist government that holds us captive and does not protect us. We will not fight and kill other people of color in the world who, like Black People, are being victimized by the white racist government of America,” the Web site reads.

“As our political objective, we want NATIONAL LIBERATION in a separate state or territory of our own, here or elsewhere, ‘a liberated zone’ (’New Africa’ or Africa), and a plebiscite to be held throughout the BLACK NATION in which only we will be allowed to participate for the purposes of determining our will and DIVINE destiny as a people. FREE THE LAND!” another point states.

The NBPP also calls for an end to “the capitalistic domination of Africa in all of its forms: imperialism, criminal settler colonialism, neo-colonialism, racism, sexism, zionism, Apartheid and artificial borders.” "

And this is the guy people are actually contemplating voting for. What a chuckle. Pete

"When fascism comes to America it will come wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

  

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jazz4freeThu Mar-20-08 01:43 AM
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#24. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to spy1 (Reply # 23)


  

          

Now, that's funny stuff. Never suspected you a comedian...

  

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spy1Thu Mar-20-08 08:39 PM
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#37. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 24)


          

That's because you don't recognize "depth" when you're looking at it.

Obama's wife: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331288,00.html :

"...for the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country..."

Obama's pastor: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4443788

" "The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme." "

Obama's Black Panther buddy: http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/19/obama-web-site-still-carries-new-black-panther-party-endorsement/

"The New Black Panthers, who inherited their name from the Black Panther Party of the 1960s, had the page on the Obama campaign’s public forums. The group’s message said it is backing Obama because he “represents ‘positive change’ for all of America. Obama will stir the ‘Melting Pot’ into a better ‘Molten America.’” " (Shades of "Burn, baby, burn!" , no doubt, given that particular "party's" platform).

And, of course, from Obama himself:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm :

"# Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
# Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms."

The so-called "assault weapon" ban? He's all for it - as an expanded and permanent ban:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289373,00.html
"Obama Calls for Permanent Assault Weapons Ban to Combat Inner-City Violence".

Obama's one-for-the-ages, all right - the End Times.

I'm seriously considering voting straight Democrat in ALL future races - for no other reason than to help bring on the revolution while I'm still young enough to take part in it.

Happy Good Friday and Easter to ya'. Pete

"When fascism comes to America it will come wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

  

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JohnnyRebThu Mar-20-08 09:02 PM
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#38. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to spy1 (Reply # 37)
Thu Mar-20-08 09:03 PM by JohnnyReb

  

          

Seriously Pete... Seek help.... PROFESSIONAL help.

Judging from your posts you are defintitely NOT consistent, and show serious paranoid tendencies. If you would like, I can give some recommendations for good mental health professionals in your area....

  

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Dave101Fri Mar-21-08 12:04 PM
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#45. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 38)


  

          

Quote:
If you would like, I can give some recommendations for good mental health professionals in your area....


I bet you could....

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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DavyWavyFri Mar-21-08 08:22 AM
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#41. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to spy1 (Reply # 37)


  

          

I'm here for you, Pete...but mainly I'm here for the old black guy who is here for Ashley...


DavyWavy -

  

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spy1Fri Mar-21-08 06:41 PM
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#54. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to DavyWavy (Reply # 41)


          

Thanks, Dave!

Having a great weekend here - hope you and yours are, too. Pete

"When fascism comes to America it will come wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

  

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DJCThu Mar-20-08 04:27 AM
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#25. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to spy1 (Reply # 23)


  

          

Here is black minister and his view on Obama

http://youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU

  

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jazz4freeThu Mar-20-08 08:23 AM
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#27. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to DJC (Reply # 25)
Thu Mar-20-08 08:26 AM by jazz4free

  

          

Hallelujah! That was enlightening.

I find it curious how certain of the always more thoughtful among us had no comment in the aftermath of Senator Obama's speech until obviously they had had time to scour the dregs for the vile opinion of others to support their small-minded agenda.

As if taken aback and left more-than-usually confused by the obvious brilliance of Obama's address, it was like, "Whoa! -- better say nothing 'till I hear from Rush and get some feedback from the gang over at Fox Noise -- those aces who have relieved me of the burden of thought."

Now that a couple of point men have tested the water here, expect the floodgates holding back the usual deluge of puerile rightist bile to open.

  

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Dave101Thu Mar-20-08 11:52 AM
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#29. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 27)


  

          

Quote:
I find it curious how certain of the always more thoughtful among us had no comment in the aftermath of Senator Obama's speech until obviously they had had time to scour the dregs for the vile opinion of others to support their small-minded agenda.


Your actually inviting me back? Everytime you open your big mouth with comments like that the thread goes straight to hell. I guess your one sided intellectual thread is getting boring?

Obama has a good speech writer, he never would of thought of that himself.

The reason you don't here from the most thoughtful among us is because everytime we get you guys on the rope or down for the count, Shelley comes to the rescue & locks the thread. Have fun with your boring convo.

Obama will not be president.

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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FHORNLEGHORNThu Mar-20-08 02:38 PM
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#30. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Dave101 (Reply # 29)


  

          

Quote:


Obama has a good speech writer, he never would of thought of that himself.



Obama will not be president.


And then there are those who relish living in the past filled with venom and racist bigotry,amazing.

Have a great day all!

  

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scaramoucheThu Mar-20-08 02:56 PM
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#31. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to FHORNLEGHORN (Reply # 30)


  

          

Quote:
QUOTE:


Obama has a good speech writer, he never would of thought of that himself.



Obama will not be president.


And then there are those who relish living in the past filled with venom and racist bigotry,amazing.

Have a great day all!


The above person obviously did not like the speech and does not like Obama. Probably would not vote for him. Is that racial prejudice?


Guns don't kill people. Husbands who come home early kill people.

  

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Paul DThu Mar-20-08 05:38 PM
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#32. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Dave101 (Reply # 29)


  

          

Quote:
QUOTE:

Obama has a good speech writer...


He does, doesn't he. His name is Barack Obama.



Paul D

  

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ShellyThu Mar-20-08 07:08 PM
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#34. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 32)


  

          

What I heard is that Obama was up all night writing and polishing the speech.

Shelly

  

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Paul DThu Mar-20-08 07:32 PM
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#35. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 34)


  

          


Likewise. Others may have helped polish it, but it's pretty certain that it's 99% his own work.



Paul D

  

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Dave101Fri Mar-21-08 12:17 PM
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#46. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 35)


  

          

Were you there when he wrote it?

We'll never know or will we? Maybe Jon Favreau, the Obama campaign's head speechwriter.

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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jazz4freeFri Mar-21-08 01:02 PM
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#48. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Dave101 (Reply # 29)


  

          

Aww, what the hell! I'm fickle -- I'll take back what I said about not engaging you. I'm in a much better place this morning -- in a playful catlike mood, and the thought of toying with a foolish little mouse that keeps insisting on leaving his safe cubbyhole to sit blinking clueless in the middle of the kitchen floor is simply irresistible.

That adult conversation bores you is unfortunate but, in your case, understandable. Maybe we should set a place for you at the children's table next time you come to dinner. You can sculpt your mashed potatoes into little guns and bibles. And if you try hard enough maybe one of the string beans on your plate will magically turn into that indispensable second oar we all use and which you seem to have misplaced somewhere along the way.

That the intellectual content of this thread -- which delves somewhat beyond which I'm sure you are accustomed to find in "Lock & Load Monthly" or "Watchtower" (which, word has it, is delivered free to the door at each and every inconvenient opportunity) -- escapes you is not at all surprising considering your ball-cap-backwards past performances here. I mean, anyone who adopts Machiavelli as a mentor and quotes him simply because he has stumbled across a line in his subscription copy of the Reader's Digest he thinks supports modern state sponsored religion...or believes that Darwin was one of Satan's legion sent to confuse us...or that moose hunting is a sport...

As Ronald Reagan and Jack Benny were often wont to say, "Well...".

Seemingly, you revel in your new-found and totally fitting though somewhat self-appointed (back by popular demand? gimme a break!) role as chief spokesperson and point man for the intellectually challenged who "dwell here amongst us." (Hey, folks, a paraphrased bible quote.)

The fact that you insult those you claim to represent by suggesting their inadequacy to speak for themselves (which, sadly, I do have to admit proves often to be the case) while at the same time insulting every one else here in your profound delusion that you are an intellectual superior, qualifies you as a leading candidate to receive the totally mentally f'd up award for the hockey season 2007/2008.

And, BTW, FYI, but for a sprinkle, I'm not of French heritage. Irish on my father's side, English on my mother's -- and so continuously at war with myself.

Now, again one more time I've presented you the opportunity to do another of your self-assumed duties here: the hall monitor (oh, how we hated those creeps!) and go whining to the moderators about enforcing the rules.

Bonne chance, mon cher ami, and, hey, toi aussi -- have a good day.




  

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Dave101Fri Mar-21-08 01:28 PM
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#51. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 48)


  

          

Quote:
And, BTW, FYI, but for a sprinkle, I'm not of French heritage. Irish on my father's side, English on my mother's -- and so continuously at war with myself.


That I knew. Was just waiting for you to confirm it.

Quote:
Maybe we should set a place for you at the children's table next time you come to dinner. You can sculpt your mashed potatoes into little guns and bibles. And if you try hard enough maybe one of the string beans on your plate will magically turn into that indispensable second oar we all use and which you seem to have misplaced somewhere along the way.


D'ont forget a bavette, just in case.

Quote:
The fact that you insult those you claim to represent by suggesting their inadequacy to speak for themselves (which, sadly, I do have to admit proves often to be the case) while at the same time insulting every one else here in your profound delusion that you are an intellectual superior, qualifies you as a leading candidate to receive the totally mentally f'd up award for the hockey season 2007/2008.


I'm not in the habit of insulting anyone for no reason. That's your department.

Quote:
Aww, what the hell! I'm fickle -- I'll take back what I said about not engaging you. I'm in a much better place this morning


Glad to see the new meds are working, maybe we'll start seeing the old James the way he behaved when he joined the forum.

Quote:
...or that moose hunting is a sport


I hunt for the meat & am respectful of that great creature. I suppose the 3 fish I caught yesterday (2/3pds brochets & 1/2pnd doré) for tonight's Good friday supper doesn't sit well with you also?

Sorry but PCQANDA is not all I have in life.

Happy Easter James & all.

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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jazz4freeFri Mar-21-08 02:24 PM
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#52. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Dave101 (Reply # 51)
Fri Mar-21-08 02:36 PM by jazz4free

  

          

Incredible!

Never mind....

  

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JohnnyRebFri Mar-21-08 03:58 PM
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#53. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 52)


  

          

A popularized definition of insanity is repeatedly performing the same act but expecting different outcomes. By this definition you are going insane, James...

You know what the result of this line of dialog will be. He has yet to fail you in that respect.

  

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jazz4freeSat Mar-22-08 08:07 AM
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#59. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 53)
Sat Mar-22-08 08:13 AM by jazz4free

  

          

I know, I know, I know... But he's (to borrow from Steven King) an "itch in my brain" that my OCD compels me to scratch -- a mite of dust glued into an obscure corner my psychotic dust rag won't reach.

Had you or I -- or, for that matter, any "normal" person possessed of a modicum of introspection been called coward for behavior by a person of indisputable respect and proved intelligence and restraint (in naked view of our peers, mind you), we would have at the least paused to give that behavior second thought. Maybe even lost a moment or two of sleep, and afterward returned somewhat contrite instead of in manic rage and with renewed purpose.

So, sadly but obviously, we are dealing here with the abnormal. Someone to whom God (or his equally imagined moronic surrogates) perhaps in the form of a burning fleur-de-lis, speaks a mission? "Go forth, shout absurdities loudly, and help lead us back to the age when the fear of demons ruled reason and the physical universe was but background to delusion."

Oh, and, "Buy lots of Remington ammo and ball caps to wear backward and dig yourselves in!"

Anyhow, in case you haven't noticed I'm currently in the process of reviving from yesterday's "chess match" and everything I say here will probably be regretted when the euphoria wears off.

I should, however, heed your pragmatic advice and hold both my temper and the sophomoric criticism that springs from it. My brother-in-law once told me in conversation while rolling his eyes, "As long as you're around, James, I'll never have to spring for a psychiatrist."

But that itch, that itch, that nagging itch...

"It was the beating of his telltale heart!"

Book me a rubber room with Shania Twain the first and only on the visitor's list and I'll sign the papers.




  

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Dave101Sat Mar-22-08 01:04 PM
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#61. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 59)


  

          

Quote:
Had you or I -- or, for that matter, any "normal" person possessed of a modicum of introspection been called coward for behavior by a person of indisputable respect and proved intelligence and restraint (in naked view of our peers, mind you), we would have at the least paused to give that behavior second thought.


Come say it to my face. I'll even PM you my address (it was posted in the comp forum, hopefully someone copied it before a mod deleted it) with direction to my front door. Maybe we can sit down & have some tea.

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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jazz4freeSat Mar-22-08 02:26 PM
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#62. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Dave101 (Reply # 61)
Sat Mar-22-08 02:32 PM by jazz4free

  

          

You invite me to tea despite the fact you've expressed fear to the moderators that I would beat on you with a detached prosthesis?

And in the same breath whined an implied banishment as justice for that apocryphal threat?

In anger I did once express the desire to wipe the smirk off your face and, in the process, have you swallow teeth. At that moment, stupidly enraged, I would gladly have bruised a fist in the process.

But I apologized to all for my inexcusable conduct then and now offer belatedly that same apology to you.

I consider you uninformed and simplistic. That would be fine if you observed common courtesy and conducted yourself here as a gentleman. You do not. You are without humor and have no idea of wit. You tread with jackboots and cast an insulting and condescending net wide enough to entrap everyone -- even those who may share in your opinion. If there are fools here who give you leave to speak for them, then more fool they.

I have many French Canadian friends who struggle with the English language, as do I with French. But, they are smart and challenging in their opinion -- you, sadly, are not. You are merely self-important, abusively loud and without substance.

You may sleep easy -- I have no intention of purchasing a bus ticket to your location.

However, I'm in the book.

  

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Dave101Sat Mar-22-08 05:32 PM
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#64. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 62)


  

          

Quote:
If there are fools here who give you leave to speak for them, then more fool they.


I speak for no one & no one speaks for me, and there my friend is another difference between you & I.

Quote:
You are without humor and have no idea of wit


Sorry but I'm the happyest person in Sturgeon Falls. Here well it's pretty hard with all the old grouches.

Quote:
You invite me to tea despite the fact you've expressed fear to the moderators that I would beat on you with a detached prosthesis?


There is only One I fear.

Quote:
But I apologized to all for my inexcusable conduct then and now offer belatedly that same apology to you.


Didn't have to but I thank you anyway. I take nothing said here to bed with me or to heart.

Quote:
I have many French Canadian friends who struggle with the English language, as do I with French. But, they are smart and challenging in their opinion -- you, sadly, are not. You are merely self-important, abusively loud and without substance.


Is that because their opinion reflects yours? Well my opinions are mine & I don't bend easily. I like Bush you don't. You like Obama I don't. What's wrong with that?

Quote:
You may sleep easy -- I have no intention of purchasing a bus ticket to your location.


Rest assured that I always do.

Quote:
However, I'm in the book.


Is that an invite for tea?

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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jazz4freeSat Mar-22-08 07:56 PM
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#66. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Dave101 (Reply # 64)


  

          

Quote:
Is that an invite for tea?


Yes -- and sympathy.

  

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mauriceSun Mar-23-08 12:49 PM
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#80. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Dave101 (Reply # 64)
Sun Mar-23-08 01:27 PM by maurice

          

Quote:

.....
Well my opinions are mine & I don't bend easily. I like Bush you don't. You like Obama I don't. What's wrong with that?
.....


More than you think, if - as a European, like me - one is looking for interesting response on Obama's speech by those who call themselves "the most thoughtful among us",

and this, at Reply nr. 64, is all one sees: the puerile bickering between you two, devoid of any ONtopic comment !

I sincerely hope this is not representative of what "intellectual America" has gone back to, 4 days after this kind of speech...

Greets from Amsterdam, Holland,
where things are not one bit better !
Maurice.

  

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Dave101Sun Mar-23-08 03:50 PM
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#81. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to maurice (Reply # 80)


  

          

Quote:
devoid of any ONtopic comment !


Umm was #80 ONtopic?

Looks like the speech is helping Hillary, she's leading in the polls for the next round. The nomination will drag on till august.

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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jazz4freeMon Mar-24-08 07:41 PM
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#83. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to maurice (Reply # 80)


  

          

Quote:
I sincerely hope this is not representative of what "intellectual America" has gone back to, 4 days after this kind of speech...


Beats the hell outta me -- I'm Canadian and on my best day pseudo intellectual.

But I'm sorta flattered that you think I had the ability to disappoint Europe.

  

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peterbSat Mar-22-08 05:16 PM
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#63. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Dave101 (Reply # 51)


          

Tread softly when using the words "Good Friday" in this forum. You may offend the atheists drunks and rocket scientists and have your post edited.

  

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ShellySat Mar-22-08 08:16 PM
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#67. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to peterb (Reply # 63)


  

          

Lest you mislead a new member, you have been here long enough to know that no post by anyone has ever been edited for any religious reference that was not designed to insult another members religion. You seem to have little regard for the truth lately, perhaps you have strayed from your devout beliefs and religious charitabilty. Help is available if you seek it.

Shelly

  

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peterbSat Mar-22-08 10:19 PM
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#71. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 67)
Sat Mar-22-08 10:58 PM by peterb

          

I like the way you suggest that people need help if they don't agree with you and/or your followers here at PCQandA. You're becoming quite Crusty in your old age Shelly. The following were quotes made by you on this site pertaining to organized religion overlooking the fact that some may believe but aren't foolish enough to be a part of such "organizations".

http://www.pcqanda.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=148692&mesg_id=148692&page=9

"God Bless Christopher Hitchens"

"The path to Truth is through Science"? Is that not insulting to some members here that are not your followers?

  

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JohnnyRebSat Mar-22-08 10:42 PM
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#73. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to peterb (Reply # 71)


  

          

It is one thing to believe that followers of organized religions are being led astray. It is quite another to edit/remove posts based on religious content.

The former is a sign of intelligence. The latter is an abuse of power. I can't remember seeing an example of the latter on this board.

  

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peterbSat Mar-22-08 10:45 PM
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#74. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 73)
Sat Mar-22-08 10:51 PM by peterb

          

My response is based on the fact that posting anything Religious and not Scientific on this forum may go against the grain of some who have control of what's posted or not.

  

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JohnnyRebSat Mar-22-08 10:48 PM
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#75. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to peterb (Reply # 74)
Sat Mar-22-08 10:51 PM by JohnnyReb

  

          

All Shelly is doing there, as far as I can see, is stating an opinion.

No editing/removing of posts.

Maybe you can be more explicit regarding what the problem is with those two posts?

Edit: I think I see - you are not referring to editing posts here. Simply to the fact that Shelly's posts may be seen as offensive by some religious parties here. I do not see how that is relevant to your assertion that posts will be edited/removed, however.

  

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Paul DSun Mar-23-08 01:26 AM
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#76. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to peterb (Reply # 74)


  

          


No post is ever removed from these forums on the grounds of moderators (singular or plural) personal beliefs.



Paul D

  

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ShellySun Mar-23-08 08:40 PM
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#82. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to peterb (Reply # 71)
Sun Mar-23-08 08:44 PM by Shelly

  

          

I have no followers, nor would I want any. You feel your beliefs are unchallengeable, because of your faith. Mine are based upon reality as I see it, and every bit as worthy as yours. I take nothing on faith alone.

Shelly

  

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jazz4freeSat Mar-22-08 09:04 PM
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#68. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to peterb (Reply # 63)


  

          

The mention of Good Friday didn't offended this atheist drunk but I'll have to admit it was a little inconvenient that the local liquor stores were closed. beer

  

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Dave101Sat Mar-22-08 09:41 PM
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#69. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 68)


  

          

Les Dépanneurs sont ouvert?

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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DJCSat Mar-22-08 07:12 AM
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#58. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 48)


  

          

Oh hell
I thought you were a Newfie

  

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jazz4freeSat Mar-22-08 08:49 AM
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#60. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to DJC (Reply # 58)


  

          

No, but my dad's (Irish) family were blown into Quebec on a nor'easter from New Brunswick, and my mom's (English) family escaped the textile mills of northern England to work the textile mills of southern Quebec.

I once had a lovely and serious girlfriend who was from Newfoundland, but she smartly emigrated to greener pastures.

She wanted the white picket fence with all the trimmings, and, at the time, all I had to offer was a
selfish itinerant musician's unstable pot to piss in.

The folly of youth...

  

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Bob HThu Mar-20-08 06:22 PM
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#33. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 27)


  

          

Of course, that is defined as anything that disagrees with your opinions and views.



  

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jazz4freeThu Mar-20-08 07:48 PM
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#36. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Bob H (Reply # 33)


  

          

Certainly.

  

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Bob HFri Mar-21-08 01:21 AM
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#39. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 36)


  

          

Finally, a non-obfuscating honest (?) answer.



  

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jazz4freeFri Mar-21-08 09:50 AM
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#43. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Bob H (Reply # 39)


  

          

You may rightly accuse me of many things -- prosy, pomposity, posturing, pedantry, excessive use of alliteration -- but obfuscation?

And hey, Whipper, I didn't even need my thesaurus.

  

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DJCFri Mar-21-08 04:53 AM
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#40. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 36)


  

          

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/20/AR2008032003017.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

From Washington Post
White guilt. Obama's purpose in the speech was to put Wright's outrages in context. By context, Obama means history. And by history, he means the history of white racism. Obama says, "We do not need to recite here the history of racial injustice in this country," and then he proceeds to do precisely that. What lies at the end of his recital of the long train of white racial assaults from slavery to employment discrimination? Jeremiah Wright, of course.

  

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jazz4freeFri Mar-21-08 09:27 AM
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#42. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to DJC (Reply # 40)


  

          

Charles Krauthammer -- my favorite sour and dour, paleface neoconservative -- finds Barack Obama's observations wanting. No great surprise.

I do not -- I thought them cogent and brilliant.

And, BTW, did Krauthammer and his ilk submit op-ed pieces equally critical and condemnatory of Jones and Falwell and Robertson (those powerful and perverted, self-appointed gurus of the Wonder-bread Christian right) for their outrageous and often deranged observations on the human condition? And how about their political supplicants? I believe one of the more recently converted is now running for president at the head of the other ticket.

  

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mlangdnFri Mar-21-08 11:06 AM
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#44. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 42)


          

Here's one for Huckabee:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/06/AR2007120601966.html

Another on Krauthammer and religion:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZDA5ODZhZjkwYjYwNmIzY2IyZTI5MGUzZTE1ZmMzNjQ=

And one last one that barely mentions Robertson:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/17/AR2005111701304.html

James, I didn't google Krauthammer's ilk, but I think you are wrong on his supposed neo-conservatism. Conservative, yes.

  

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jazz4freeFri Mar-21-08 01:22 PM
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#50. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to mlangdn (Reply # 44)


  

          

I qualified my being "critical and condemnatory" with "equally" -- so at least I covered my sorry butt there.

But, as far as Krauthammer being neoconservative -- anyone who fills in for Britt Hume on Fox Sunday Morning and defends the ill-conceived and lately forgotten war in Iraq, even occasionally, qualifies him in my mind for the terrible honorific.

  

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JordanFri Mar-21-08 12:50 PM
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#47. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 0)


  

          

The masterpiece of a disaster
http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20080321/NATION01/437222857

Quote:
What a difference a day makes. Twenty-four hours after Barack Obama's teaching moment on race, the landscape was littered with eminent pundits, lying agog in the weeds, overcome by euphoria and flummoxed by failing eupepsia.

Their squeals of praise were universally breathtaking: "It was an extraordinary moment of truth-telling." "A masterpiece!" "A profile in courage!" "Brilliant, inspiring, intellectually supple!" "Searing, nuanced, gut-wrenching and loyal." "A speech we have all been waiting for for a generation." The punditocracy, having overdosed on nuance, seared by supple and sore from all those wrenched guts, is fresh out of exclamation points, now on back order in newsrooms everywhere.

A day after that, reality intrudes. Pundits only observe. Pollsters take the first true measure of events, and yesterday the first polls taken since the speech reveal that the remarks that Obamaniacs call the greatest speech since Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address look like a disaster.

Rasmussen Reports reckons that John McCain's lead over both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton is growing. Gallup reports similar findings. By Rasmussen"s reckoning, the McCain lead over Mr. Obama has grown to 49 percent to 42 percent, 51 percent to 41 percent over Hillary. Black support for Hillary has cratered, falling to 55 percent in a general election matchup. Mr. Obama keeps his overwhelming black support, as expected, but only 36 percent of white voters say they would vote for him. That's the ominous statistic; sad and bad as it may be, it's nevertheless a fact that nobody male or female, black or white or any shade in between can win the White House without a lot of white voters.

Poll numbers will fluctuate a lot between now and November; every poll is only a snapshot. Landscapes change. Barack Obama did what he had to do to distance himself from his hateful pastor and mentor, but by doing so, he brought race to the forefront of the campaign, where it is likely to stay. He has done what he set out never to do, to make himself "the black candidate." This was what Bill Clinton tried to do to him in South Carolina.

The Internet, which has been so generous to the Obama campaign with its unprecedented ability to convert message to money, now becomes the senator's Public Enemy No. 1. The videos of the Wright stuff — his calling down God's damnation on America, his assertion that the AIDS virus is a diabolical invention of the American government to kill all blacks, his gleeful boast that September 11 was the flutter of America's chickens coming home to roost — will continue to play 24/7, reaching viewers in a way the television networks no longer can.

Mr. Obama described himself yesterday as rattled by the turn of events. "In some ways, this controversy has actually shaken me up a little bit," he told CNN, "and gotten me back into remembering that, you know, the odds of me getting elected have always been lower than some of the other conventional candidates. As a practical matter, in terms of how this plays out demographically, I can't tell you."

Mr. Obama's rhetorical skills are unmatched by his rivals, all the more effective because a generation of Americans has never been exposed to the magic of oratory. He projects soaring tone and soothing tint that obscure what he's actually saying. His assurance that his pastor's racist rants are familiar fare in black pulpits is not reassuring at all (and it's a libel on thousands of black parsons who faithfully preach the Gospel of the Prince of Peace). His depiction of a white grandmother as a mean-spirited racist, his tolerance of harsh denunciations of whites (like his mother) from the pulpit that he has supported for 20 years with his presence and his tithes, strikes the white voters he must persuade as mean, harsh and inexplicable. This is not the message Barack Obama set out with a year ago when he caught magic in a bottle. Now the magic, and maybe his shot at the White House, resembles only a dashed wish written on the wind.

  

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jazz4freeFri Mar-21-08 01:08 PM
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#49. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Jordan (Reply # 47)


  

          

Please, haven't you heard of the 48-hour news cycle?

  

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ShellySat Mar-22-08 05:33 PM
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#65. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 0)
Sat Mar-22-08 05:37 PM by Shelly

  

          

The first poll results are in for Sen. Obama's Speech. The poll conducted by CBS News has a margin of error of +/-4% The full details are Here in PDF format.

OBAMA'S SPEECH: GOOD OR POOR JOB ADDRESSING RACE RELATIONS?
(Among voters following the events)
Good job 69%
Poor job 20%

Moreover, most voters following the speech agree with the ideas on race that Obama expressed in his speech. Three in four Democrats agree with Obama’s sentiments on race, though fewer Republicans do.

AGREE WITH OBAMA'S VIEWS ON RACE RELATIONS IN U.S.?
(Among voters following the events)

Agree: All 63%, Dems 73% Reps 43%, Inds 65%

Disagree: All 25%, Dems 16%, Reps 39%, Inds 25%

71% of voters following the speech think Obama did a good job explaining his relationship with Rev. Wright.

OBAMA'S SPEECH: GOOD OR POOR JOB EXPLAINING WRIGHT?
(Among voters following the events)
Good job 71%
Poor job 24%


Since about 30% of the Voters in the US are Republicans, it is interesting to note that a majority of them polled believe that Obama did a good job in his speech. Proving that most people identifying themselves as Republican are far more fair minded and thoughtful than some of the more reactionary members of this forum, who are way out of step with about 70% of voting Americans.

Any sane person would have to seriously question the intelligence of anyone who would at this point predict the outcome of a general election for President still nearly 8 months away, not even knowing who the candidates will be. Much can happen to a candidate, and to the nation between now and then that would have a huge effect. A terrorist attack on us soil, a major collapse of our economy, a candidates blunder, or an unforeseeable event could change everything. We live in interesting times.

Shelly

  

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LadytenSat Mar-22-08 10:17 PM
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#70. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 0)


          


Ladyten i'm confused, when did slavery become an original sin??
both God and Jesus had instructions on how to be a good slave. and did not ahooker become an elected government overseas and a man with a certificate of sanity win another election?. If he writes hisn own speaches we possible in for four more years of taking up air time just to explain that he said but how we the people misunderstood him
..

  

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JohnnyRebSat Mar-22-08 10:38 PM
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#72. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Ladyten (Reply # 70)


  

          

Translation please...

  

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LadytenSun Mar-23-08 01:43 AM
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#77. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 72)


          


Ladyten sorry I a newbie and getting my feet wet, I was refering to
Obamas speach but my quoates didn't come up. Obama and rev white both refere to slavery as an original sin, I have read the Bible cover to cover twice plus study and reading research before my eyes starting
going, nowhere is slavery refered to as a sin...God and Jesus both had

instruction on how to be a good slave.

Obama went on to say neither he or his multicolored family could rise
out of their stations in life except in this country. We have seen
actors, prostitutes, a man that was certified as sane win elected office in this country and over seas in some of our allies countries
mass murder is condoned as long as you keep lieing to the un.
I think I confused you by not being able to post to the original thread
I still can't

  

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Dave101Sun Mar-23-08 02:11 AM
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#78. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Ladyten (Reply # 77)
Sun Mar-23-08 02:19 AM by Dave101

  

          

Unbelievers will not understand what your trying to say. They were called servants in the New Testament & slaves in the old.

Quote:
Colossians 3:22
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;


Edit: Depends what book you read: This from the international version:

Quote:
Colossians 4:1
Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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LadytenSun Mar-23-08 03:50 AM
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#79. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Dave101 (Reply # 78)


          


Ladyten You understood exactly what I ment this second time.
The part that needs more text is "what will cause the time to be shortened for the elect? I have a fanstatic gif you will really like
that says a book full, I'll try my best to send it, YNC

ps I love moose too no preserves, additivites and rolling a thin cut with cream cheese garlic onions and chives on a stick or a george forman grill melts in your mouth

  

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LadytenTue Mar-25-08 07:05 AM
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#84. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Dave101 (Reply # 78)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:
Unbelievers will not understand what your trying to say. They were called servants in the New Testament & slaves in the old.

Colossians 3:22
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;


Edit: Depends what book you read: This from the international version:

Quote:
Colossians 4:1
Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.


Ladyten reading KJV,ASV,Hebgrk,Hebgrkeng the Koran, Chineese scripts, Scofield,Coffman, parts of the Dead sea scrolls, Egypts Hyro
glificts, and Americian indian sand scripts. This list is not ment to be holier than thou, it's the product of loving to learn and as much as I can before I can only hear these droning voises on audio tapes.

  

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flmcgWed Mar-26-08 12:38 AM
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#85. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 0)


          

I responded earlier in this thread to this speech, to the effect that I thought it was brilliant, and that Sen. Obama deserved my support. That speech WAS brilliant, but can I still support him? No, not anymore. After his "typical White person" remarks, I now believe he is just as racist as his "Pastor" and others of this ilk. I am keenly disappointed, since I really do not care for Sen. Clinton, but ... I may be faced with voting for her, because I think that Sen. Obama is now unelectable. Concurrent with this, I also firmly believe that Sen. McCain is an angry, argumentative, and divisive candidate who will take us even further down the road that President Bush has taken us. Fear for our country. We are in dire straits now, and unless the Democrats can get their act together (unlikely), or unless the Republicans can field a better candidate than Sen McCain, we are headed for utter disaster.

*********
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ShellyWed Mar-26-08 02:18 AM
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#86. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to flmcg (Reply # 85)


  

          

Are you sure you are properly interpreting that 'remark'? It certainly is not the way I interpreted it.

Shelly

  

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flmcgWed Mar-26-08 11:35 AM
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#87. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 86)


          

How about this: Could I get away, even remotely, for starting off a casual comment with "Well, she's a typical black person who..."? I don't think so. Is there a typical white (black, brown, yellow) person? Again, I don't think so. I'd like to see his remark in a different light, but I'm finding that very difficult.

*********
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ShellyWed Mar-26-08 01:16 PM
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#88. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to flmcg (Reply # 87)


  

          

He was talking about the white grandmother who raised him, and her fear of black strangers she encountered when walking alone on a street. That is a fairly common trait I have found in many whites in urban settings.

Shelly

  

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flmcgWed Mar-26-08 02:41 PM
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#90. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 88)


          

My reaction to his remarks center on the use of the word "typical." Had he said something to the effect that his "grandmother was wary when passing black men on the sidewalk, because she was afraid of them," I would let him have that one. But he used the word "typical" to generalize her specific fear to describe most "white persons." He created a stereotypical white person who is afraid of black people. That's racism, I believe.

*********
Desktop: Lenovo/Windows 10; Intel Core i5; 16Gb RAM; Firefox 51; Avira Free; Netgear 700 Router

  

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jazz4freeWed Mar-26-08 02:36 PM
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#89. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to flmcg (Reply # 87)


  

          

Quote:
Again, I don't think so. I'd like to see his remark in a different light, but I'm finding that very difficult.


Well, kudos -- at least you're trying.

And, of course you're finding it difficult. You're white.

Maybe had you suffered (and watched as others who share your skin color suffered and continue to suffer) every living moment the bottom-line consequence of racism -- overt and subtle, terrible and petty, and all to one degree or another degrading and enraging -- you would be able to tackle the subject objectively rather than viscerally. Almost certainly it would be more to you than the inconsequential intellectual exercise it is now.

If you think that a double standard is in use here -- that blacks are entitled to say things that would deserve condemnation if said by whites, you're wrong. It is not a double standard -- the oppressed must be cut a ton of slack in their expression. We, as the indisputable and historic oppressor, are entitled to none.

Perhaps you should be thanking Obama for giving all of us the much need opportunity to widen the dialog, no matter how painful the much needed experience proves to be, rather than condemning him for expressing feelings commonly and deeply held, and imo with much justification, within the black community.

  

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Dave101Wed Mar-26-08 02:43 PM
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#91. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 89)


  

          

Quote:
you think that a double standard is in use here -- that blacks are entitled to say things that would deserve condemnation if said by whites, you're wrong. It is not a double standard -- the oppressed must be cut a ton of slack in their expression. We, as the indisputable and historic oppressor, are entitled to none.


If whites can't say it, blacks or other races can't either. Come on where do you pick up these new standards?

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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jazz4freeWed Mar-26-08 02:54 PM
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#93. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Dave101 (Reply # 91)


  

          

Do you have some sort of gizmo set up that alerts you when I've posted?

Incredible...

  

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Dave101Wed Mar-26-08 03:00 PM
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#95. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 93)


  

          

It's a phenomenon, coincidence, I'm not sure.

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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flmcgWed Mar-26-08 02:49 PM
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#92. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 89)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:
...you would be able to tackle the subject objectively rather than viscerally. Almost certainly it would be more to you than the inconsequential intellectual exercise it is now...
My position on this issue is neither an intellectual exercise nor is it inconsequential. And your argument that victims of oppression react "objectively" rather than "viscerally" is ludicrous.

*********
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jazz4freeWed Mar-26-08 02:57 PM
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#94. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to flmcg (Reply # 92)


  

          

I argued that you react viscerally rather than objectively. Victims of racism react, understandably, in anger.

  

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flmcgWed Mar-26-08 03:07 PM
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#96. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 94)
Wed Mar-26-08 03:19 PM by flmcg

          

You wrote:

"Maybe had you suffered (and watched as others who share your skin color suffered and continue to suffer) every living moment the bottom-line consequence of racism -- overt and subtle, terrible and petty, and all to one degree or another degrading and enraging -- you would be able to tackle the subject objectively rather than viscerally."

I think this clearly suggests that you believe that those who suffer (or have suffered) from racism would "tackle the subject objectively." Are you now backing away from this argument?

Edited to add: Ahhh, crap. Ignore this post, James. I'm slipping off my ad rem position and sliding into ad hominem argument. Neither a good nor a polite thing to do.

*********
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jazz4freeWed Mar-26-08 03:18 PM
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#97. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to flmcg (Reply # 96)


  

          

You're right... Sometimes I get so wordy I lose my train of thought. But of course I'll back off from it -- I never intended it.

I meant to say that you might be more objective and less of a cultural crybaby. I apologize for the misunderstanding -- my fault entirely.

  

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flmcgWed Mar-26-08 03:23 PM
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#98. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 97)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:I meant to say that you might be more objective and less of a cultural crybaby.
Talk about ad hominem attacks!! At least I think it is, but of course I have no idea what it means to be a cultural crybaby. I rather doubt that I am one, though. Whatever it is.

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jazz4freeWed Mar-26-08 03:35 PM
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#99. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to flmcg (Reply # 98)


  

          

Quote:
Talk about ad hominem attacks!!


P-l-e-a-s-e....

  

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flmcgWed Mar-26-08 03:41 PM
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#100. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 99)


          

You've lost me, James. But no matter; I've nothing more to say on this issue.

*********
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Dave101Wed Mar-26-08 03:43 PM
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#101. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to flmcg (Reply # 100)


  

          

Maybe start a nedw thread, this time on McCain's speech in L.A. It just finished, no text yet.

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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flmcgWed Mar-26-08 03:53 PM
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#102. "RE: Obama's answer"
In response to Dave101 (Reply # 101)


          

Nah, not me. I have no interest in Sen. McCain.

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