December 3, 2007

Official Leaves Post as Texas Prepares to Debate Science Education Standards

By RALPH BLUMENTHAL

HOUSTON, Dec. 2 — After 27 years as a science teacher and 9 years as the Texas Education Agency’s director of science, Christine Castillo Comer said she did not think she had to remain “neutral” about teaching the theory of evolution.

“It’s not just a good idea; it’s the law,” said Ms. Comer, citing the state’s science curriculum.

But now Ms. Comer, 56, of Austin, is out of a job, after forwarding an e-mail message on a talk about evolution and creationism — “a subject on which the agency must remain neutral,” according to a dismissal letter last month that accused her of various instances of “misconduct and insubordination” and of siding against creationism and the doctrine that life is the product of “intelligent design.”

Her departure, which has stirred dismay among science professionals since it became public last week, is a prelude to an expected battle early next year over rewriting the state’s science education standards, which include the teaching of evolution.

Debbie Ratcliffe, a spokeswoman for the state’s education agency in Austin, said Ms. Comer “resigned. She wasn’t fired.”

“Our job,” Ms. Ratcliffe added, “is to enact laws and regulations that are passed by the Legislature or the State Board of Education and not to inject personal opinions and beliefs.”

Ms. Comer disputed that characterization in a series of interviews, her first extensive comments. She acknowledged forwarding to a local online community an e-mail message from the National Center for Science Education, a pro-evolution group, about a talk in Austin on Nov. 2 by Barbara Forrest, a professor of philosophy at Southeastern Louisiana University, a co-author of “Inside Creationism’s Trojan Horse” and an expert witness in the landmark 2005 case that ruled against the teaching of intelligent design in the Dover, Pa., schools.

“I don’t see how I took a position by F.Y.I.-ing on a lecture like I F.Y.I. on global warming or stem-cell research,” Ms. Comer said. “I send around all kinds of stuff, and I’m not accused of endorsing it.” But she said that as a career science educator, “I’m for good science,” and that when it came to teaching evolution, “I don’t think it’s any stretch of the imagination where I stand.”

Ms. Comer said state education officials seemed uneasy lately over the required evolution curriculum. It had always been part of her job to answer letter-writers inquiring about evolution instruction, she said, and she always replied that the State Board of Education supported the teaching of evolution in Texas schools.

But several months ago, in response to an inquiry letter, Ms. Comer said she was instructed to strike her usual statement about the board’s support for teaching evolution and to quote instead the exact language of the high school biology standards as formulated for the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills test.

“The student knows the theory of biological evolution,” the standards read, and is expected to “identify evidence of change in species using fossils, DNA sequences, anatomical similarities, physiological similarities and embryology,” as well as to “illustrate the results of natural selection in speciation, diversity, phylogeny, adaptation, behavior and extinction.”

The standards, adopted in 1998, are due for a 10-year review and possible revision after the 15-member elected State Board of Education meets in February, with particular ramifications for the multibillion-dollar textbook industry. The chairman of the panel, Dr. Don McLeroy, a dentist and Sunday School teacher at Grace Bible Church in College Station, has lectured favorably in the past about intelligent design.

Ms. Ratcliffe, of the Texas Education Agency, said Dr. McLeroy played no part in Ms. Comer’s departure.

Ms. Comer said that barely an hour after forwarding the e-mail message about Dr. Forrest’s talk, she was called in and informed that Lizzette Reynolds, deputy commissioner for statewide policy and programs, had seen a copy and complained, calling it “an offense that calls for termination.” Ms. Comer said she had no idea how Ms. Reynolds, a former federal education official who served as an adviser to George W. Bush when he was governor of Texas, had seen the message so quickly, and remembered thinking, “What is this, the thought police or what?”

Under pressure, Ms. Comer said, she sent out a retraction, advising recipients to disregard the message.

But Ms. Comer, the divorced mother of a grown son and daughter and the supporter of an ailing father, was still forced out of the $60,000-a-year job, she said, submitting her resignation on Nov. 7. She and the agency said nothing about her departure until The Austin American-Statesman obtained a copy of the “proposed disciplinary action” and her resignation letter.

Ms. Comer said that Tom Shindell, director for organizational development, had told her to resign or be terminated for a series of unauthorized presentations at professional meetings and other reported transgressions.

“Tom,” Ms. Comer said she asked, “am I getting fired over evolution?”

Shelly

What a shame... Seems we're fated to stand by and watch in horror as America's children are marched back into the scientific dark ages by a gang of relentless imbeciles who've substituted superstition for reason.

Are you talking about Bush and the Irag mess?

No. I'm talking about those who want to teach faith as science in your public school system.

Does it really matter? Is it worth pouting about? I'm 26 and don't remember at all what we were taught in science class. And yes I listened. Almost straight A student.

But golly gosh darn James! That was eons ago! Like the 80's and stuff!

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no I'm not.

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I'm left actually speechless...

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You shouldn't be confused, Noreen.

Adam is advocating we teach children nothing -- it's a waste of time and energy, they're gonna forget it all anyhow.

Eventually they'll grow up and discover for themselves the world isn't flat and that you can't turn lead into gold through alchemy.

That way the human race can rediscover fire as each new generation comes of age.

What fun!

Whipper seems to subscribe to the theory that if you throw enough you-know-what into the wind, some of it is bound to stick.

Thank you for answering for me! Much appreciated. However, thatis not even close to what I was saying.


Got to love the James dramatics though.

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What am I, stupid?

You suggested that children should be taught either nothing about the theories of evolution and creationism or be equally exposed to both (neutral was the word you used), which would mean introducing creationism as a scientific theory the equal of Darwin's into public schools. And you added -- whatever was done, it would make no difference, because when children came of age they would make up their own minds about these things as they do about the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

That's what you said, goddamit! And it is specious reasoning and convoluted logic -- and, on the basis of that, you had the gall to question and insult the intelligence of others!

That's a little different from the convoluted sarcasm before. Still kinda wrong though.

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Adam, you appear to be more interested in avoiding controversy in education rather than in furthering it. I can't see what either a neutral position or avoiding the subject all together would achieve for a young person's education, evolution isn't a matter of opinion in the 21st century.

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There are no religion classes in public school. But I agree, I think creationism falls under the separation of church and state category. Unfortunately, I'm in the minority who think this.

If it was a minuscule amount of people in America that believed in it, I'd say tough luck, if you don't like send your kid to a private school.

But the majority believe it to be fact, just the same as you believe evolution to be fact. There's NO telling them their wrong, as there is NO telling you, you're wrong.


Looks like the United States is pretty low on the world list of countries that believe evolution is true.


You can't teach something you don't believe in.


http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19125653.700.html

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US students also rated pretty low (29th) in the OECD global education study on science performance. Perhaps being force fed creationism has something to do with this.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071204/pisa_test_071204/20071204?hub=TopStories (Canadian article)

I don't think we're force fed creationism. I don't think it has gone that far yet.

We rank pretty low in all areas of education compared to other countries, this is nothing new.

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I already did in post #75. That only 40% of Americans in 2005 believe evolution as fact. That number is declining as the years go by, so I'm sure it's in the 30 some percent now.

The whole other 60% may not be creationism, but it's something other than evolution.

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I don't know what you're trying to get at, but if you think evolution is the majority in this country, then so be it.


I think otherwise, and I'll settle on that.


Unlike what you and James like to believe, this isn't a college paper forum. All my i's and t's don't have to be crossed, don't have to have proper grammar, spelling or sources for that matter.


Last I checked Google still works in IE6. Check 'er out.

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Don't feel like it. Tired. Sorry.

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Ah come on, don't be a quitter. How do you usually say that, umm " I was ready to go off my handle"!!! KJT's a pro poster unlike Twister he get's you with your own words. Come on find something for a comeback!!!

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqR1-_-gAgM

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I think in general you are right. The US is one of the most religious countries in the world. It is also mostly rural and sadly, not all that well educated in general.

Even in this forum, which I consider on average better educated than the population as a whole, look at the number of people that can't even use good grammar. Ever read Pygmalion, or see My Fair Lady which is based upon it? We are all marked by our ability to speak and write.

Religion teaches some outrageous things. It is full of myths and primitive concepts that were prevalent long ago when the tools and knowledge were not available to intelligently explain the world around us. People resorted to a belief in magic, superstition, and myth in an attempt to make some kind of sense of the natural world.

How can you expect the uneducated, or marginally educated, to comprehend science? People still believe in astrology today and cast horoscopes based upon the positions of stars and planets on the date of their birth, even though all of the positions they use are no longer true, but what they were 3000 years ago! The precession of the ecliptic has shifted every one of those constellations about a full month ahead. So astrology is nonsense, because it is based upon fiction, but probably over half the US population still believes in it!

Knowledge is not a democratic process. We do not get to vote on what is true and what is false. In a free society we can all believe whatever we want to. But we can't choose what is true by majority vote. The mathematical value of PI will always be

3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592...

for all time, in any intelligent civilization, located anywhere in the universe. It can not be changed because any person or group believes it, or even knows it. It is an immutable fact!

Shelly

A Teacher\'s Perspective

I'm not really up-to-date with what's taught these days but even back in my days we discussed other religions and parents could arrange for their children to do other classes if their own religion didn't allow this and they could also arrange for them to be excused from morning prayers at assembly.

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Do other nominally Christian countries have the same level of separation of Church and State as we in the US enjoy?

Jim.

You are joking, aren't you? The USA has far less separation of church and state than Australia and New Zealand, and from my imperfect knowledge, Canada and Great Britain.

I'm talking real world, not the theory enshrined in your Constitution.

It's quite clear from the article that started this thread that at least in some states of the USA separation of church and state simply doesn't exist, despite the Constitution. I also recall news items and ensuing discussions about having the Ten Commandments on courthouse walls etc etc.

In Australian secondary schools (public and private) there is a curriculum elective subject called General Religious Education. This is a comparitive subject - many religions (mainstream Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Tao etc etc) are discussed with no indoctrination at all. Specific instruction in specified religions may be provided if on an opt-in basis, generally by visiting instructors if demand is great enough. For instance, my son attended a Catholic private school as a non-catholic student. As such, he was excused the specific Catholic instruction classes, but did the GRE curriculum subject for two years.

There is no way that creationism would be taught in a science curriculum in any school in this country. Teaching creationism as science is living proof that separation doesn't exist.

I have nothing to convince myself of. Creationism should never be taught as Science but the reality that it either is, or is attempted to be, taught in public schols is not a true indication that there is no separation of Church and State.

Australia on the other hand funds religious schools. That's hardly separation. With funding, comes control.

On a personal note, it's good to see you remain the ass you've always been. There is something to be said for consistency.

Jim.

That funding is simply to ensure that all taxpayers receive an equitable share of the education dollar to which they have contributed. The control is simply a common curriculum - an eminently sensible idea.

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You shipped a tonne of Puritans and Calvinists to the American colonies and they took their religious prejudices along and built a nation around them.

Voila!

Agreed... But what has that to do with Noreen's question or my response to it?

Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black???

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

Quoi?

There seemed to be a lot of negative U.S. talk in here. We needed an uplifting statement to make sure everyone is in check on the fact that Jordan stated.

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Ditto & although I've never bad talked the US of A I think Canada ranks right up there also!!!

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

Careful, mon ami. You're coming dangerously close to doing a little hijacking of your own.

Everyone is not.

Not entirely correct. It is a fact that many people fled Europe to North America, long before there was a United States. At that time the prevailing attitudes of the state religions of Europe was the any other religious view was blasphemy. Other views were treated anywhere form barely tolerated to outright persecution. Many came here to escape bigotry and practice their own beliefs.

They had no desire to emulate the places they left, and for the most part made little attempt to force others to accept their views. That was and is the reason for separation of church and state in our laws.

The current problems are due to deliberate efforts to force a state religion in the US. Later generations have forgotten the persecution their ancestors sought to escape, and in a strange reversal, many Americans became less accepting of religious diversity while some other countries became more tolerant.

Our younger generation may not be aware of it, but about thirty years ago the evangelical right in the US decided to make us a formally Christian country aligned with their version of the "truth".

They had a plan. They would promote their agenda by taking over local school boards. Indoctrination is most easily imposed on the children. Every dictator in history knew that and practiced it. At the same time they would become monolithic, they would promote political candidates as a block, and vote as a block, especially at the local level.

They have had mixed results depending on where they lived. In parts of the country they have been very successful, in other parts that are dominated by main line religious beliefs they have been largely ineffective, but they have been able to salt our national government with politicians who either share their views, or pretend to in order to gain their financial and political support. It's not the first time in history politicians were willing to sell their souls.

I have great faith in the native intelligence of the American people. I see signs that this effort by some to reshape this country into a theocracy will fail. And I see evidence that it is starting to crumble already.

Shelly

Yeah! And you're an expert on the subject. You thought creationism is being shoved down our throats, and it's not, not even close. You take one negative tidbit of American news and base a personal opinion on America as a whole based on that. Bad!


Being like this on the net is fine, but I sure hope you don't berate people in real life like this.

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I gather from your comments in several posts that you are unaware that Intelligent Design is Creationism. It is simply an attempt to get around the Supreme Court ruling. Intelligent Design IS being pushed down the throats of American school children in several states, and is now the subject of a fight in the Florida Legislature.

Shelly

By definition different from creationism.

Needless to say, even with this issue, I'm confident that the United States Supreme Court will eventually side with the 1st amendment.


Courts have already found ID to violate the 1st in other states.


Thank GOD for the "theories" in our constitution.


Quit spoiling my fun.

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Now you're saying that it's wrong to have their faith and believe in God. I gave up on that a long time ago.

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You would have to be a good bit older than 26 to have had science class in the 80's. Unless you were a preschool prodigy.

MSU

Can't help wondering how he did in Math!

Yeah, straight A's in everything but math.

I love how people here love to ridicule on baseless stuff. I'm not directing this necessarily at you, but this just goes to show how ignorant some here can be. Especially at the age of some here.



I was talking about how much does stuff do students really retain from school? The show "Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader" loves to mock it and bring it to light. Besides the basic principles, the three R's, what is really retained? And yes I was in school in the 80's! Doesn't take much math to figure that out.


I would love to see if anyone here is smart enough to actually add to the conversation I was trying to expound on other than grade school antics that is normal here.


Really.

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Dear Ablib

Do you read your own posts?

Ethan

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
"Why shouldn't the American people take half my money from me? I took it all from them." - Edward Filene

You present us with an ill-considered and unambiguously phrased thought that leaves our collective jaws hanging with the depth of its foolishness, and, when this is pointed out to you, instead of taking your lumps like a man you scramble around for obvious qualifications and rationalizations and strike out in all directions with gratuitous insults.

Deja vu!!!


If this was the first time you came out with a blooper, and then resorted to what you may think are self-promoting but are in effect self-demeaning tactics, it might be understandable. Unfortunately, it has become a pattern of behavior.

Hmm deja vu encore.


If you, and a couple of others who come slumming here on occasion to display their bad manners and over-inflated egos, think the company not up to your intellectual standards, why do you bother with us?


Flick on the light,who's that in the miror??? Who's bothering who?


I consider the people who gather here to be, with very few exceptions, perceptive and engaging. You are the worst of fools if you think fouling your nest by questioning everyone's intelligence will gain you anything but great displeasure. You would be wise to be more selective of the targets of your contempt.

Threat or fact?


The next time you stumble around half-asleep in the night and stub your toe, try grabbing it while saying, "Ouch, you damned fool! Switch the light..." instead of cursing the darkness and the furniture.

You are the darkness & the furniture!!!


Unfortunately, you sometimes, and this was one of those times, live down to the appellation Whippersnapper, Whippersnapper.


Et toi tu es TWISTER!!!

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

Who in the hell rattled your cage?

I think he's trying to point out the pot calling the kettle black.

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Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

Yes I did the math and by 1989 you would have been in fourth grade. My daughter is in fourth grade now and they're certainly not learning the stuff that you're implying you learned (and subsequently forgot) at that point.

MSU

Your daughter doesn't have science by 4th grade? I did. I remember that much.

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