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BobGuyThu Oct-18-07 06:49 AM
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"Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"


          

WASHINGTON, Oct. 17 — President Bush issued a stark warning on Iran on Wednesday, suggesting that if the country obtained nuclear arms, it could lead to "World War III."

Link.

Such responsible words coming from the anus mouth of a world leader.

  

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ablibThu Oct-18-07 06:58 AM
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#1. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to BobGuy (Reply # 0)
Thu Oct-18-07 06:59 AM by ablib

  

          

Wow, that was dumb. You would think that after the WMD fiasco he would shut his trap about them.


He really should just shut up about this and do nothing, because no one is ever going to believe him and his ratings will drop even lower. Plus it won't we WWIII it's going to be just us. I don't blame anyone, who can believe the USA about WMD's (like the US is the only nation that came up with the theory, funny huh?!?)

Like a terrorist state would ever want to do harm on the USA in a big bang kind of a way. No way!

So if and when Iran ever does utilize nuclear weaponry, Bush can sit back in Crawford and say, "I told you so."

Visit the Basement

  

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BobGuyThu Oct-18-07 10:48 AM
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#2. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to ablib (Reply # 1)


          

Quote:
So if and when Iran ever does utilize nuclear weaponry, Bush can sit back in Crawford and say, "I told you so."


"The reality is that of the world's estimated 22,000 nuclear weapons, about 21,000 belong to the U.S. and Russia, each of the two possessing nearly equal numbers and keeping about 1,000 of them ready for launching within 30 minutes.

We should worry about the existence of nuclear weapons with their unique capacity to put an end to human life on this planet, it is odd that we overlook the thousands and peer at the murky single digits through a magnifying glass and tremble with fear.

We that used nuclear weapons in Hiroshima and Nagasaki have no right to demand that other states have no nuclear technologies."

I believe we must do everything possible to keep this criminally insane administration from bombing Iran, or anyone else for that matter.

It's Winter now.
Over all the rooftops is calm and quiet,
you can hardly hear a thing
except for the ticking,
the ticking,
the ticking

  

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giseudaThu Oct-18-07 10:55 AM
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#3. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to BobGuy (Reply # 2)


  

          

Quote:
It's Winter now.
Over all the rooftops is calm and quiet,
you can hardly hear a thing
except for the ticking,
the ticking,
the ticking


  

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ablibThu Oct-18-07 11:11 AM
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#4. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to BobGuy (Reply # 2)
Thu Oct-18-07 11:11 AM by ablib

  

          

Quote:
We that used nuclear weapons in Hiroshima and Nagasaki have no right to demand that other states have no nuclear technologies



Oh but, we do. It's called the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and the IAEA Statutes that Iran has violated.


I get it though. We should sit idly by and let them do what they want while we wait for doomsday.


I'm not saying we should bomb them. But doing nothing is irresponsible.

Visit the Basement

  

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jespur62Thu Oct-18-07 01:52 PM
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#9. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to ablib (Reply # 4)


          

Quote:

Oh but, we do. It's called the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and the IAEA Statutes that Iran has violated.


Every country breaks treaties, even the US, when it suits them.

  

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BobGuyThu Oct-18-07 02:14 PM
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#10. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to ablib (Reply # 4)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:
We that used nuclear weapons in Hiroshima and Nagasaki have no right to demand that other states have no nuclear technologies


Oh but, we do. It's called the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and the IAEA Statutes that Iran has violated.


I get it though. We should sit idly by and let them do what they want while we wait for doomsday.


I'm not saying we should bomb them. But doing nothing is irresponsible.

It is odd that we overlook the thousands and peer at the murky single digits through a magnifying glass and tremble with fear.

  

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jasonlevineThu Oct-18-07 11:49 AM
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#5. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to BobGuy (Reply # 0)


  

          

When I heard that on the news, my first reaction was: "We're going to invade Iran, aren't we? The President is going to wait until after the election, invade Iran, and then leave the mess for the next President to deal with, isn't he?"

Beth asked if Bush would be able to do that without the support of Congress and I told her that Congress can authorize and fund wars, but the President can order strikes against pretty much anyone at any time for any reason. It's in the Constitution. So, theoretically, he could decide to launch strikes against Iran at any point he wants to.

Call me overly cynical, but I think the chances for this rise more if a Democrat is elected President:

Step 1: Set up a no-win Iran war just before leaving office.
Step 2: Watch as Democrat President tries in vain to undo the damage without looking weak on terror.
Step 3: Republican President elected in 2012 because incumbant Democrat President can't possibly win re-election due to their inevitably bungled attempt to fix the Iran situation.


- Jason Levine
Please donate to PCQandA!

  

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ablibThu Oct-18-07 11:53 AM
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#6. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 5)


  

          

VERY good analysis, but some here may laugh at my naiveness when I say I don't think Bush is that evil.


I'm going to remember this post once the time comes though, so that I can hopefully prove I was right.

Visit the Basement

  

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jasonlevineThu Oct-18-07 12:33 PM
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#8. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to ablib (Reply # 6)


  

          

I hope you're right also. It's not that I think that Bush would be "evil" (in the mustache twirling sense) in his intentions to invade Iran, but that members of his administration would be playing the ultimate game of dirty politics by convincing him that an invasion of (or at least series of strikes against) Iran was needed.

- Jason Levine
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jazz4freeThu Oct-18-07 02:19 PM
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#11. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 5)


  

          

A little cynical, but a little cynicism is good.

Like all megalomaniacs, Bush considers that his pathetic life is one for the ages. All he has done and all he will do, until the joyous day he limps from office, he will do to build a legacy, trusting subsequent events will vindicate him.

So I wouldn't put anything past him. What's a few more bleached bones added the pile?

He is in it up to his eyebrows, yet he seemed to be having a jolly old time at yesterday's press conference. I, for one, no longer find his good-old-boy buffoonery amusing.

He is one dangerous dude!

  

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ShellyThu Oct-18-07 02:41 PM
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#12. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 5)


  

          

The fear is that Iran would launch a nuke against Israel, resulting in a retaliatory strike from Israel.

Gee, the evangelicals may get their Armageddon yet!

Shelly

  

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jasonlevineFri Oct-19-07 02:11 PM
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#22. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 12)


  

          

I know that's a fear, but I honestly can't see any Islamic nation nuking Israel. Sure they want the Jews out and Israel gone, but there are too many holy places in Israel that they would want returned to Muslim hands. Nuke Israel and you destroy those places. This would surely anger the Islamic fundamentalists who think of some of those spots as holy.

However, I can see Iran (or another Islamic country) using the threat of nukes to get what they want.

- Jason Levine
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BobGuyFri Oct-19-07 09:16 PM
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#23. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 12)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:
The fear is that Iran would launch a nuke against Israel, resulting in a retaliatory strike from Israel.

Gee, the evangelicals may get their Armageddon yet!


"Israel is a strategic liability, not asset. Never has it provided significant assistance to America in an international crisis."

Link.

Some how the USS Liberty and 1967 come to mind.

I'm sure I'll figure out that piece of "good will" one day.
____________________________________________________
The reality is that Iran has no nuclear weapons, but Pakistan does.
Pakistan has a lot of Islamic extremists. And Bhutto survived a road side bomb attack just yesterday.

Musharraf is one bullet away from those 72 virgins, he is the only one we know of standing between the extremists and those 60 nukes Pakistan has.

All it would take is for those Muslim extremists dudes is to launch those 60 nukes at India, and shazam ww3. Lots of radiation circling the globe in 7 days or so.

Israel, Pakistan, and India never signed the non proliferation treaty. You don't see the USA going after those country's with (any meaningful) economic sanctions.

Iran on the other hand did sign the non proliferation treaty and has been shit on by the USA since 1979.

  

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81 NewbeeMon Oct-22-07 02:44 AM
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#38. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 5)


  

          

Jason, Jason,You are the last person on the forum who I thought would start a "conspirecy theory" Have you thought of writing a book ??

81 Newbee

  

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jasonlevineMon Oct-22-07 12:07 PM
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#44. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to 81 Newbee (Reply # 38)


  

          

It's not so much a conspiracy theory as a mistrust of politicians. I think they'll do anything or say anything to get elected. And if they can't get elected, they'll do anything or say anything to get their party members elected. I don't think a politician should ever be fully trusted, no matter which party they are from.

- Jason Levine
Please donate to PCQandA!

  

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DJCMon Oct-22-07 12:20 PM
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#45. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 44)


  

          

Jason
You are correct. The mantra of a politician is why tell the truth when a lie sounds better.

  

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Dave101Thu Oct-18-07 12:05 PM
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#7. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to BobGuy (Reply # 0)


  

          

WW3 will come, that's a givin but the key is the temple in Jerusalem!!! When & if you get to see the beginning of construction on the temple then you can start worrying.

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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npmclThu Oct-18-07 04:15 PM
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#13. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to BobGuy (Reply # 0)


  

          

I really can't see what moral right the countries that already have nuclear weapons have to demand that other countries shouldn't have them too. I realise that the West regards those other countries as a threat but equally those other countries regard the West as a threat. It's a dangerous situation all round but there's no putting the genie back in the bottle now.

  

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ablibThu Oct-18-07 04:18 PM
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#14. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 13)


  

          

What?! Me, you...we're the good guys!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty

Visit the Basement

  

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ShellyThu Oct-18-07 04:39 PM
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#15. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 13)


  

          

Be assured that many third world countries would not hesitate to immediately use nuclear weapons as soon as they acquire them. Any nation or group that unhesitatingly straps on suicide vests for the chance of killing their enemies du jour, will look upon nuclear devices as just more bang for the buck.

Intellectual discussions regarding equal rights to such technology will mean nothing when they literally blow up in your face.

Shelly

  

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npmclThu Oct-18-07 05:15 PM
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#16. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 15)


  

          

Yes I know that really, Shelly. I'm sure that terrorists don't care about moral rights, non-proliferation treaties or international agreements anyway. But leaving aside nuclear weapons then, I still think that it's going to be very difficult to say that no other country can have nuclear power unless "we" approve of them, especially as we appear to be going to use more of it.

  

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ShellyThu Oct-18-07 05:41 PM
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#17. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 16)
Thu Oct-18-07 05:45 PM by Shelly

  

          

We have done fairly well for six decades. The nuclear "club" is still very small, and composed of nations that are relatively sane.

It helps that building nuclear weapons is easier said than done. Although any physics student today understands the basics of building a nuclear bomb, the technology is expensive and difficult to realize.

Far more dangerous are countries with poor safety controls on their inventories of such weapons, or the desire to aid proliferation.

It is a pretty safe bet that if Israel had not destroyed Saddam's nuclear facilities many years ago,Iraq would have had WMD on hand. We can thank them for stopping one madman, and recently, perhaps another in Syria. I would not be surprised to see them perform a similar service for the world in Iran before too long. They have taken much heat for such acts, but it must be remembered that they are in the cross hairs of these lunatics.

We have never objected to anyone having peaceful nuclear power projects, as long as they were of the types that could not be used to also make weapons.

Shelly

  

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FHORNLEGHORNFri Oct-19-07 01:12 AM
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#18. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 17)


  

          

452 days till this moron leaves office!

He should take his meds and learn to shut his mouth!

Where are all his advisors in all these gaffes?

Ahmadinejad is playing bush like a puppet,knowing that the cowboy mentality will come out and he'll do/say something stupid again!

  

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81 NewbeeFri Oct-19-07 02:09 AM
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#19. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to FHORNLEGHORN (Reply # 18)


  

          

However the man bugging Bush is a nut!As for the problem ,Shelly is right.Perhaps this nut may want to claim his 72 virgins by removing Isreal from the face of the earth so that he gets his reward when we counter strike.Just be happy that we got the Nbomb before Hitler did.As for the "logic "that we have it and therefore we must allow others to obtain.That's FUZZY LOGIC

81 Newbee

  

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DJCFri Oct-19-07 04:19 AM
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#20. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to 81 Newbee (Reply # 19)


  

          

I think Israel will take out Iran if need be they cannot nor can the world allow a nation that believes it is their right to wipe Israel of the face of the earth to have Nukes. Yes America used Nukes; I venture to say many of us would not be here if they had not been used. The invasion of Japan would have been the bloodiest battle in history. If the Emperor had ordered a fight to the death more men and women and children would have died if we had not used the bomb, remember the Emperor was considered God and revered by his people. Fighting to the death would have been considered an honor for the Japanese in that era.

  

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ShellyFri Oct-19-07 01:43 PM
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#21. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to DJC (Reply # 20)


  

          

Quote:
If the Emperor had ordered a fight to the death more men and women and children would have died if we had not used the bomb...


Forget about IF. The Emperor had already given that order when it became evident that we would next attack their home islands, and they already had children as young as 12 under arms.

Shelly

  

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81 NewbeeSat Oct-20-07 12:02 AM
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#24. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 21)


  

          

Here's the imformation.My outfit was one scheduled to land at Sagami Bay just south of Tokyo.I was home on a 30 day leave(5 points short of a dischsrge)and was to return to the division. Then they dropped the bombs on Japan and they surrendered.I had to wait over a month for discharge but after reading the piece below,i can't say I have any regrets that the bombs were dropped.



WWII History

An Invasion Not Found in the History Books
by James Martin Davis

reprinted from the Omaha World Herald, November 1987

Deep in the recesses of the National Archives in Washington, D.C., hidden for nearly four decades lie thousands of pages of yellowing and dusty documents stamped "Top Secret". These documents, now declassified, are the plans for Operation Downfall, the invasion of Japan during World War II. Only a few Americans in 1945 were aware of the elaborate plans that had been prepared for the Allied Invasion of the Japanese home islands. Even fewer today are aware of the defenses the Japanese had prepared to counter the invasion had it been launched. Operation Downfall was finalized during the spring and summer of 1945. It called for two massive military undertakings to be carried out in succession and aimed at the heart of the Japanese Empire.



In the first invasion - code named Operation Olympic - American combat troops would land on Japan by amphibious assault during the early morning hours of November 1, 1945 - 50 years ago. Fourteen combat divisions of soldiers and Marines would land on heavily fortified and defended Kyushu, the southernmost of the Japanese home islands, after an unprecedented naval and aerial bombardment.

The second invasion on March 1, 1946 - code named Operation Coronet - would send at least 22 divisions against 1 million Japanese defenders on the main island of Honshu and the Tokyo Plain. It's goal: the unconditional surrender of Japan. With the exception of a part of the British Pacific Fleet, Operation Downfall was to be a strictly American operation. It called for using the entire Marine Corps, the entire Pacific Navy, elements of the 7th Army Air Force, the 8 Air Force (recently redeployed from Europe), 10th Air Force and the American Far Eastern Air Force. More than 1.5 million combat soldiers, with 3 million more in support or more than 40% of all servicemen still in uniform in 1945 - would be directly involved in the two amphibious assaults. Casualties were expected to be extremely heavy.



Admiral William Leahy estimated that there would be more than 250,000 Americans killed or wounded on Kyushu alone. General Charles Willoughby, chief of intelligence for General Douglas MacArthur, the Supreme Commander of the Southwest Pacific, estimated American casualties would be one million men by the fall of 1946. Willoughby's own intelligence staff considered this to be a conservative estimate.

During the summer of 1945, America had little time to prepare for such an endeavor, but top military leaders were in almost unanimous agreement that an invasion was necessary.

While naval blockade and strategic bombing of Japan was considered to be useful, General MacArthur, for instance, did not believe a blockade would bring about an unconditional surrender. The advocates for invasion agreed that while a naval blockade chokes, it does not kill; and though strategic bombing might destroy cities, it leaves whole armies intact.

So on May 25, 1945, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, after extensive deliberation, issued to General MacArthur, Admiral Chester Nimitz, and Army Air Force General Henry Arnold, the top secret directive to proceed with the invasion of Kyushu. The target date was after the typhoon season.



President Truman approved the plans for the invasions July 24. Two days later, the United Nations issued the Potsdam Proclamation, which called upon Japan to surrender unconditionally or face total destruction. Three days later, the Japanese governmental news agency broadcast to the world that Japan would ignore the proclamation and would refuse to surrender. During this same period it was learned -- via monitoring Japanese radio broadcasts -- that Japan had closed all schools and mobilized its schoolchildren, was arming its civilian population and was fortifying caves and building underground defenses.

Operation Olympic called for a four-pronged assault on Kyushu. Its purpose was to seize and control the southern one-third of that island and establish naval and air bases, to tighten the naval blockade of the home islands, to destroy units of the main Japanese army and to support the later invasion of the Tokyo Plain.

The preliminary invasion would begin October 27 when the 40th Infantry Division would land on a series of small islands west and southwest of Kyushu. At the same time, the 158th Regimental Combat Team would invade and occupy a small island 28 miles south of Kyushu. On these islands, seaplane bases would be established and radar would be set up to provide advance air warning for the invasion fleet, to serve as fighter direction centers for the carrier-based aircraft and to provide an emergency anchorage for the invasion fleet, should things not go well on the day of the invasion. As the invasion grew imminent, the massive firepower of the Navy - the Third and Fifth Fleets -- would approach Japan. The Third Fleet, under Admiral William "Bull" Halsey, with its big guns and naval aircraft, would provide strategic support for the operation against Honshu and Hokkaido. Halsey's fleet would be composed of battleships, heavy cruisers, destroyers, dozens of support ships and three fast carrier task groups. From these carriers, hundreds of Navy fighters, dive bombers and torpedo planes would hit targets all over the islandof Honshu. The 3,000 ship Fifth Fleet, under Admiral Raymond Spruance, would carry the invasion troops.

Several days before the invasion, the battleships, heavy cruisers and destroyers would pour thousands of tons of high explosives into the target areas. They would not cease the bombardment until after the land forces had been launched. During the early morning hours of November 1, the invasion would begin. Thousands of soldiers and Marines would pour ashore on beaches all along the eastern, southeastern, southern and western coasts of Kyushu. Waves of Helldivers, Dauntless dive bombers, Avengers, Corsairs, and Hellcats from 66 aircraft carriers would bomb, rocket and strafe enemy defenses, gun emplacements and troop concentrations along the beaches.

The Eastern Assault Force consisting of the 25th, 33rd and 41st Infantry Divisions would land near Miyaski, at beaches called Austin, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, and Ford, and move inland to attempt to capture the city and its nearby airfield. The Southern Assault Force, consisting of the 1st Cavalry Division, the 43rd Division and Americal Division would land inside Ariake Bay at beaches labeled DeSoto, Dusenberg, Essex, Ford, and Franklin and attempt to capture Shibushi and the city of Kanoya and its airfield.

On the western shore of Kyushu, at beaches Pontiac, Reo, Rolls Royce, Saxon, Star, Studebaker, Stutz, Winston and Zephyr, the V Amphibious Corps would land the 2nd, 3rd and 5th Marine Divisions, sending half of its force inland to Sendai and the other half to the port city of Kagoshima.

On November 4, the Reserve Force, consisting of the 81st and 98th Infantry Divisions and the 11th Airborne Division, after feigning an attack of the island of Shikoku, would be landed -- if not needed elsewhere -- near Kaimondake, near the southernmost tip of Kagoshima Bay, at the beaches designated Locomobile, Lincoln, LaSalle, Hupmobile, Moon, Mercedes, Maxwell, Overland, Oldsmobile, Packard and Plymouth.

Olympic was not just a plan for invasion, but for conquest and occupation as well. It was expected to take four months to achieve its objective, with the three fresh American divisions per month to be landed in support of that operation if needed.

If all went well with Olympic, Coronet would be launched March 1, 1946. Coronet would be twice the size of Olympic, with as many as 28 divisions landing on Honshu.

All along the coast east of Tokyo, the American 1st Army would land the 5th, 7th, 27th, 44th, 86th, and 96th Infantry Divisions along with the 4th and 6th Marine Divisions.

At Sagami Bay, just south of Tokyo, the entire 8th and 10th Armies would strike north and east to clear the long western shore of Tokyo Bay and attempt to go as far as Yokohama. The assault troops landing south of Tokyo would be the 4th, 6th, 8th, 24th, 31st, 37th, 38th and 8th Infantry Divisions, along with the 13th and 20th Armored Divisions.

Following the initial assault, eight more divisions - the 2nd, 28th, 35th, 91st, 95th, 97th and 104th Infantry Divisions and the 11th Airborne Division -- would be landed. If additional troops were needed, as expected, other divisions redeployed from Europe and undergoing training in the United States would be shipped to Japan in what was hoped to be the final push.

Captured Japanese documents and post war interrogations of Japanese military leaders disclose that information concerning the number of Japanese planes available for the defense of the home islands was dangerously in error.

During the sea battle at Okinawa alone, Japanese kamakaze aircraft sank 32 Allied ships and damaged more than 400 others. But during the summer of 1945, American top brass concluded that the Japanese had spent their air force since American bombers and fighters daily flew unmolested over Japan.

What the military leaders did not know was that by the end of July the Japanese had been saving all aircraft, fuel, and pilots in reserve, and had been feverishly building new planes for the decisive battle for their homeland.

As part of Ketsu-Go, the name for the plan to defend Japan -- the Japanese were building 20 suicide takeoff strips in southern Kyushu with underground hangars. They also had 35 camouflaged airfields and nine seaplane bases.

On the night before the expected invasion, 50 Japanese seaplane bombers, 100 former carrier aircraft and 50 land based army planes were to be launched in a suicide attack on the fleet.

The Japanese had 58 more airfields in Korea, western Honshu and Shikoku, which also were to be used for massive suicide attacks.

Allied intelligence had established that the Japanese had no more than 2,500 aircraft of which they guessed 300 would be deployed in suicide attacks.

In August 1945, however, unknown to Allied intelligence, the Japanese still had 5,651 army and 7,074 navy aircraft, for a total of 12, 725 planes of all types. Every village had some type of aircraft manufacturing activity. Hidden in mines, railway tunnels, under viaducts and in basements of department stores, work was being done to construct new planes.

Additionally, the Japanese were building newer and more effective models of the Okka, a rocket-propelled bomb much like the German V-1, but flown by a suicide pilot.

When the invasion became imminent, Ketsu-Go called for a fourfold aerial plan of attack to destroy up to 800 Allied ships.

While Allied ships were approaching Japan, but still in the open seas, an initial force of 2,000 army and navy fighters were to fight to the death to control the skies over Kyushu. A second force of 330 navy combat pilots were to attack the main body of the task force to keep it from using its fire support and air cover to protect the troop carrying transports. While these two forces were engaged, a third force of 825 suicide planes was to hit the American transports.

As the invasion convoys approached their anchorages, another 2,000 suicide planes were to be launched in waves of 200 to 300, to be used in hour-by-hour attacks.

By mid-morning of the first day of the invasion, most of the American land-based aircraft would be forced to return to their bases, leaving the defense against the suicide planes to the carrier pilots and the shipboard gunners.

Carrier pilots crippled by fatigue would have to land time and time again to rearm and refuel. Guns would malfunction from the heat of continuous firing and ammunition would become scarce. Gun crews would be exhausted by nightfall, but still the waves of kamikaze would continue. With the fleet hovering off the beaches, all remaining Japanese aircraft would be committed to nonstop suicide attacks, which the Japanese hoped could be sustained for 10 days. The Japanese planned to coordinate their air strikes with attacks from the 40 remaining submarines from the Imperial Navy -- some armed with Long Lance torpedoes with a range of 20 miles -- when the invasion fleet was 180 miles off Kyushu.

The Imperial Navy had 23 destroyers and two cruisers which were operational. These ships were to be used to counterattack the American invasion. A number of the destroyers were to be beached at the last minute to be used as anti-invasion gun platforms.

Once offshore, the invasion fleet would be forced to defend not only against the attacks from the air, but would also be confronted with suicide attacks from sea. Japan had established a suicide naval attack unit of midget submarines, human torpedoes and exploding motorboats.

The goal of the Japanese was to shatter the invasion before the landing. The Japanese were convinced the Americans would back off or become so demoralized that they would then accept a less-than-unconditional surrender and a more honorable and face-saving end for the Japanese.

But as horrible as the battle of Japan would be off the beaches, it would be on Japanese soil that the American forces would face the most rugged and fanatical defense encountered during the war.

Throughout the island-hopping Pacific campaign, Allied troops had always out numbered the Japanese by 2 to 1 and sometimes 3 to 1. In Japan it would be different. By virtue of a combination of cunning, guesswork, and brilliant military reasoning, a number of Japan's top military leaders were able to deduce, not only when, but where, the United States would land its first invasion forces.

Facing the 14 American divisions landing at Kyushu would be 14 Japanese divisions, 7 independent mixed brigades, 3 tank brigades and thousands of naval troops. On Kyushu the odds would be 3 to 2 in favor of the Japanese, with 790,000 enemy defenders against 550,000 Americans. This time the bulk of the Japanese defenders would not be the poorly trained and ill-equipped labor battalions that the Americans had faced in the earlier campaigns.

The Japanese defenders would be the hard core of the home army. These troops were well-fed and well equipped. They were familiar with the terrain, had stockpiles of arms and ammunition, and had developed an effective system of transportation and supply almost invisible from the air. Many of these Japanese troops were the elite of the army, and they were swollen with a fanatical fighting spirit.

Japan's network of beach defenses consisted of offshore mines, thousands of suicide scuba divers attacking landing craft, and mines planted on the beaches. Coming ashore, the American Eastern amphibious assault forces at Miyazaki would face three Japanese divisions, and two others poised for counterattack. Awaiting the Southeastern attack force at Ariake Bay was an entire division and at least one mixed infantry brigade.

On the western shores of Kyushu, the Marines would face the most brutal opposition. Along the invasion beaches would be the three Japanese divisions , a tank brigade, a mixed infantry brigade and an artillery command. Components of two divisions would also be poised to launch counterattacks.

If not needed to reinforce the primary landing beaches, the American Reserve Force would be landed at the base of Kagoshima Bay November 4, where they would be confronted by two mixed infantry brigades, parts of two infantry divisions and thousands of naval troops.

All along the invasion beaches, American troops would face coastal batteries, anti-landing obstacles and a network of heavily fortified pillboxes, bunkers, and underground fortresses. As Americans waded ashore, they would face intense artillery and mortar fire as they worked their way through concrete rubble and barbed-wire entanglements arranged to funnel them into the muzzles of these Japanese guns.

On the beaches and beyond would be hundreds of Japanese machine gun positions, beach mines, booby traps, trip-wire mines and sniper units. Suicide units concealed in "spider holes" would engage the troops as they passed nearby. In the heat of battle, Japanese infiltration units would be sent to reap havoc in the American lines by cutting phone and communication lines. Some of the Japanese troops would be in American uniform, English-speaking Japanese officers were assigned to break in on American radio traffic to call off artillery fire, to order retreats and to further confuse troops. Other infiltration with demolition charges strapped on their chests or backs wold attempt to blow up American tanks, artillery pieces and ammunition stores as they were unloaded ashore.

Beyond the beaches were large artillery pieces situated to bring down a curtain of fire on the beach. Some of these large guns were mounted on railroad tracks running in and out of caves protected by concrete and steel.

The battle for Japan would be won by what Simon Bolivar Buckner, a lieutenant general in the Confederate army during the Civil War, had called "Prairie Dog Warfare." This type of fighting was almost unknown to the ground troops in Europe and the Mediterranean. It was peculiar only to the soldiers and Marines who fought the Japanese on islands all over the Pacific -- at Tarawa, Saipan, Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

Prairie Dog Warfare was a battle for yards, feet and sometimes inches. It was brutal, deadly and dangerous form of combat aimed at an underground, heavily fortified, non-retreating enemy.

In the mountains behind the Japanese beaches were underground networks of caves, bunkers, command posts and hospitals connected by miles of tunnels with dozens of entrances and exits. Some of these complexes could hold up to 1,000 troops.

In addition to the use of poison gas and bacteriological warfare (which the Japanese had experimented with), Japan mobilized its citizenry.

Had Olympic come about, the Japanese civilian population, inflamed by a national slogan - "One Hundred Million Will Die for the Emperor and Nation" - were prepared to fight to the death. Twenty Eight Million Japanese had become a part of the National Volunteer Combat Force. They were armed with ancient rifles, lunge mines, satchel charges, Molotov cocktails and one-shot black powder mortars. Others were armed with swords, long bows, axes and bamboo spears. The civilian units were to be used in nighttime attacks, hit and run maneuvers, delaying actions and massive suicide charges at the weaker American positions.

At the early stage of the invasion, 1,000 Japanese and American soldiers would be dying every hour.

The invasion of Japan never became a reality because on August 6, 1945, an atomic bomb was exploded over Hiroshima. Three days later, a second bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. Within days the war with Japan was at a close.

Had these bombs not been dropped and had the invasion been launched as scheduled, combat casualties in Japan would have been at a minimum of the tens of thousands. Every foot of Japanese soil would have been paid for by Japanese and American lives.

One can only guess at how many civilians would have committed suicide in their homes or in futile mass military attacks.

In retrospect, the 1 million American men who were to be the casualties of the invasion, were instead lucky enough to survive the war.

Intelligence studies and military estimates made 50 years ago, and not latter-day speculation, clearly indicate that the battle for Japan might well have resulted in the biggest blood-bath in the history of modern warfare.

Far worse would be what might have happened to Japan as a nation and as a culture. When the invasion came, it would have come after several months of fire bombing all of the remaining Japanese cities. The cost in human life that resulted from the two atomic blasts would be small in comparison to the total number of Japanese lives that would have been lost by this aerial devastation.

With American forces locked in combat in the south of Japan, little could have prevented the Soviet Union from marching into the northern half of the Japanese home islands. Japan today could be divided much like Korea and Germany.

The world was spared the cost of Operation Downfall, however, because Japan formally surrendered to the United States September 2, 1945, and World War II was over.

The aircraft carriers, cruisers and transport ships scheduled to carry the invasion troops to Japan, ferried home American troops in a gigantic operation called Magic Carpet.

In the fall of 1945, in the aftermath of the war, few people concerned themselves with the invasion plans. Following the surrender, the classified documents, maps, diagrams and appendices for Operation Downfall were packed away in boxes and eventually stored at the National Archives. These plans that called for the invasion of Japan paint a vivid description of what might have been one of the most horrible campaigns in the history of man. The fact that the story of the invasion of Japan is locked up in the National Archives and is not told in our history books is something for which all Americans can be thankful.

81 Newbee

  

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81 NewbeeSat Oct-20-07 12:22 AM
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#25. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to 81 Newbee (Reply # 24)


  

          

Here's the site with many interesting links

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/8141/downfall.html

81 Newbee

  

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LilJoeSat Oct-20-07 03:19 AM
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#26. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to 81 Newbee (Reply # 25)


  

          

Thanks John

LilJoe

  

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nightlyreaderSat Oct-20-07 04:40 AM
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#27. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to 81 Newbee (Reply # 24)


          

Thanks, I had not seen this account.

Nightly Reader

  

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ShellySat Oct-20-07 05:28 PM
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#28. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to 81 Newbee (Reply # 24)
Sat Oct-20-07 05:29 PM by Shelly

  

          

We all know today how ineffective the coastal bombardment of Normandy was against the German forces, and the hell that was faced by the troops that landed on the beaches.

Had the conventional campaign against the Japanese islands actually been waged, I have seen estimates of at least 2 million American forces being killed and military and civilian Japanese casualties of two to four million.

President Truman displayed a great deal of courage in ordering the atomic attacks In August 1945. What the Japanese then, and most Americans still today don't realize is that at that time we only had two atomic bombs, and no atomic bomb had ever been actually dropped from an aircraft to test the bomb designs. Other bombs were under construction and by the end of November 1945 we would have up to seven more.

After the second bomb was dropped on Nagasaki on August 9th, Truman went on the radio and announced, "Having found the bomb we have used it. We have used it against those who attacked us without warning at Pearl Harbor, against those who have starved and beaten and executed American prisoners of war, against those who have abandoned all pretense of obeying international laws of warfare. We have used it in order to shorten the agony of young Americans. We shall continue to use it until we completely destroy Japan’s power to make war."

That last sentence was understood by the Emperor to signal the destruction of the Japanese race if they did not unconditionally surrender.

within a week on August 14th Japan surrendered. The death toll from the two bombs, immediate and due to radiation over time was between 200,000 to 250,000. Untold millions of lives on both sides were saved by the decision to use the bomb.

Shelly

  

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81 NewbeeSun Oct-21-07 04:40 AM
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#29. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 28)


  

          

Hi Shelly,I have always had the opinion that a huge mistake was made in the blasting of the beaches at Normandy.The 4th infantry was first to land on Utah beach.We were accompanied by a tank unit with tanks equipped with flotation devices many of which floundered in the rougher seas than the devices were appearantly tested in. Only a few of them made land as intended.We each had individual maps and we were so far from where we were supposed to land that indicated landmarks did not match the map.
The area behind the beach was flooded with some causeways as access.We were told that the water was deep and that we would probsbly encounter intense enemy artillary fire (Especially 88s on those causeways,When we boarded the landing craft with full gear the waves were at least 6 feet high.(Timing your jump was crucial)
While this was happening, our beach had been straffed and battleships behind us were pouring fire on targets including a large concrete pill box on one end of the beach.A destroyer was in front of us moving back and forth firing on the beach.As we approaced,it ,it was hit and was sinking!In the breifing we got just after leaving the English coast we were told that our main objective after establihing a beachhead was to move up and take the port of Cherburg
I have often wondered and have yet to hear or read an explaination of what I later considered some bad military blunders....
1 Were the tank devices ever tested in rough waters
2 Who supplied the imfo on the depth of the waters behind our beach?
We waded through it and it was less than waist high in some places.
3 While it was obvious that many of the targets of the ships firing were beyoud our beach,the beach itself and the pillbox was pounded'
4 compare this to Omaha beach where the poor bastards were pinned down and raked with gunfire.I look at the buildings still standing there(Take a look at the books and pictures still available ) and wonder how much fire power was NOT directed at the beach itself and the German division there.Consisder this as well.The 101st and 81st Airbourne Divisions were dropped behind OUR beach . In my opinion, at this time, I believe some one in planning made a big mistake(Just like in todays war.) The ultimate prize was The Port of Cherburg and in concentratig on it a ball was dropped that cost a lot of lives.I can think of no other realistic reason for not surely blasting the hell out of those buildings and the whole Omaha beach before the landing craft arrived .As an ironic note ,when our division captuered the port it had been sabatoged beyoud use !!!
War is won by the side that makes the fewest mistakes at the higher level.The grunts just work with the plan they are given .God help them !

81 Newbee

  

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nightlyreaderSun Oct-21-07 04:56 AM
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#30. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to 81 Newbee (Reply # 29)


          

I have also wondered why there was not more shelling and bombing.

Have you considered writing more about your experiences? I would like to read about them.

Nightly Reader

  

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81 NewbeeMon Oct-22-07 03:10 AM
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#39. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to nightlyreader (Reply # 30)


  

          

Not Really !While they were some of the most miserable days of my life I also remember some of them of them as some of the best days of my life.I met a lot of great people(AS well as some lovely French girls) when we took Paris along with DeGaulles troops.They wined and dined us that night and early next day.Every thing was free ! We moved on and guys with clean dress uniforms moved in and had a parade.I got back to Paris after the war had ended and everything was different.They wanted to buy your cigarettes and shoes.And the girls were now ladies who were no longer enamored by US soldiers

81 Newbee

  

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VijaySun Oct-21-07 01:05 PM
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#31. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to 81 Newbee (Reply # 29)


          

I must be stupid and may be I am.

This topic I thought was about Iran having the Bomb and Pakisistan and Isreal.

Why shift to the justification of US using the Bomb in WWII.

Are there still some guilt feelings.

Vijay

  

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ShellySun Oct-21-07 06:37 PM
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#34. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Vijay (Reply # 31)


  

          

I can only speak for myself. There are absolutely no guilt feelings here, and I doubt there are many among most of those who lived through that period.

The use of the bomb on Japan was one of the best decisions in the history of warfare, and I have always been grateful that Truman had the courage and wisdom to use it. Had it not been used the total deaths, both military and civilian, on all sides in WWII could have easily been doubled. Of that there can be no doubt for anyone with a knowledge of history. I am thankful we had it and we used it.

Shelly

  

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VijayThu Oct-25-07 01:00 PM
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#53. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 34)


          

Accepted.

Just one question... Will a nuke attack make sense in this day and age when we all know the dangers of Fallout?If not why is GW posturing as a tough guy?

  

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ShellyThu Oct-25-07 02:55 PM
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#57. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Vijay (Reply # 53)


  

          

There are about 8000 nuclear warheads in the world today, most are hydrogen fusion devices that make the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs look like fire crackers. Most of the warheads are designed to be delivered by MIRV ICBM's each carrying 5 to 7 warheads.

Although there is a chance of someone using a small tactical nuclear bomb at some time in the future, the main function of the existing stockpile is preventative, MAD, Mutually Assured Destruction of entire nations in an attack and retaliatory response.

Perhaps a small country with a few small bombs could use one and be ignored by the major powers, but only a madman in any of the major powers would trigger a wide spread nuclear war.

This is a Multiple Independently Targetable Reentry Vehicle (MIRV). Each of the small black cones is a warhead that can deliver to separate targets.




Shelly

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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81 NewbeeMon Oct-22-07 02:29 AM
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#37. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Vijay (Reply # 31)


  

          

VJ.You have been around this forum long enough to know by now that as the discussions progress the overall direction ,although related to the topic.tend to become more encompassing as others join.While not specific to Iran ,the history of using the bomb has meaning.My posts were in relation to others comments in the posts who thought as I do.If you have more to add on the specifics re Iran ,GO FOR IT!I am sure we would be interested!Absolutely no guilt here either! !.

81 Newbee

  

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VijayThu Oct-25-07 12:47 PM
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#51. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to 81 Newbee (Reply # 37)
Thu Oct-25-07 01:06 PM by Vijay

          

Hey Pal If I am out of line I apoligise.I should have included Isreal in my post.

IMHO GW is an ass.

Edit this should have read I do NOT wish to denigrate the Office of the President of the US but only its present incumbent.

Vijay

  

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KJTThu Oct-25-07 12:52 PM
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#52. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Vijay (Reply # 51)
Thu Oct-25-07 01:07 PM by KJT

  

          

Quote:
I do wish to denigrate the Office of the President of the US but only its present incumbent.


I think you left out the word "NOT" following "I do" in your sentence.

Jim.

Edit: You're welcome.

  

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VijayThu Oct-25-07 01:09 PM
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#54. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to KJT (Reply # 52)


          

I did leave out the word not and have now edited the post..Thanks for pointing it out

Vijay

  

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81 NewbeeFri Oct-26-07 04:09 AM
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#60. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Vijay (Reply # 51)


  

          

No apology needed and no offense intended

81 Newbee

  

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ShellySun Oct-21-07 06:21 PM
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#33. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to 81 Newbee (Reply # 29)


  

          

I can't recall any major battle in the last thousand years where the advance planning meant anything in the end. Plans are out the window when the shooting starts, and ultimately most battles and wars have been won by the number and bravery of the boots on the ground.

Shelly

  

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Paul DSun Oct-21-07 09:22 PM
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#35. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 33)


  

          


I knew you were old, but that old?



Paul D

  

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ShellySun Oct-21-07 11:20 PM
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#36. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 35)


  

          

Not really, although I sometimes feel that old.

I was a little too young for service in WWII, but they saved room in the next one for me. I was however old enough to understand what was going on in WWII.

I have been to those Normandy beaches, I have seen the German fortifications and the obstacles that our troops had to overcome to survive. It has ever since been a mystery to me how anyone got off those beaches alive. If there ever was a God, he must have been there with them.

Every man who stormed those beaches deserved a Medal of Honor or a Victoria Cross.

If we had been forced to stage similar attacks on the Japanese home islands, the war in the Pacific might well have had a very different ending, and we would be living in a very different world.

Shelly

  

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81 NewbeeMon Oct-22-07 03:22 AM
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#40. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 36)


  

          

We got a Bronze arrowhead to add to our service medal,but it did not give any discharge points.

81 Newbee

  

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DJCMon Oct-22-07 03:58 AM
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#41. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to 81 Newbee (Reply # 40)


  

          

I was reading August newspaper from 1945 that I have on this subject it is from a Minneapoils Minnesota Newspaper my mother had which is now mine concerning the Nuke bombings of Japan, even then there were Americans against the use of these weapons. I will with my slow typing will type it out and put it here for all to read.

  

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ablibMon Oct-22-07 04:01 AM
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#42. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to DJC (Reply # 41)


  

          

Can you scan it and post the picture?

Visit the Basement

  

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DJCMon Oct-22-07 04:11 AM
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#43. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to ablib (Reply # 42)


  

          

I will try but I do not have scanner paper is old I can try it. I can use a scanner at work when I come back to work next Wednesday, it creates a pdf image file when scanned.

  

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JordanMon Oct-22-07 04:19 PM
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#46. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to 81 Newbee (Reply # 29)


  

          

81, my neighbor wrote a book documenting his experiences in WWII. He enlisted in St Louis, MO in 1940 at age 17 and served until the end in 1945. He participated in seven campaigns and two major landings with his last action in Keigslutter Forest. Briefly, he fought in Africa, Sicily, Normandy, and the Battle of the Bulge. At Normandy his unit, 41st Armored Infantry, landed on Omaha beach behind the 29th Division. The book is in paperback and is a detailed, exdplicit account of the battlefiled. The name of the book is 'Unless You Were There' and the author is Paul J. Andert.

  

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81 NewbeeMon Oct-22-07 07:56 PM
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#47. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Jordan (Reply # 46)
Mon Oct-22-07 07:58 PM by 81 Newbee

  

          

Those guys on Omaha were pinned down for too damn long.Apparently the empahsis of the ship gunfire there, rather than the beach, was on inland targets! There was no excuse for what happened on Omaha.
While I was at Camp Gordon (now Fort Gordon (near Augusta,GA),the 4th was a Motorized Infantry and suddenly a rumor was spread,apparently purposely that we were going to head to Africa.We then got orders to prepare our weapons and equipment for protection from salt water .Cargo Nets were hung from barracks and we practiced climbing up and downOur kitchens were supplied with smoked Hams etc and the rumors grew stronger.After a few months of this we were given orders to unpack the rifles etc and we went back to normal.We were told unofficially that what we had done was be a decoy for an armor unit actually deployed to North Africa.Perhaps it was your neighbours.We will never know!

81 Newbee

  

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nightlyreaderTue Oct-23-07 04:56 AM
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#48. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Jordan (Reply # 46)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:
81, my neighbor wrote a book documenting his experiences in WWII. He enlisted in St Louis, MO in 1940 at age 17 and served until the end in 1945. He participated in seven campaigns and two major landings with his last action in Keigslutter Forest. Briefly, he fought in Africa, Sicily, Normandy, and the Battle of the Bulge. At Normandy his unit, 41st Armored Infantry, landed on Omaha beach behind the 29th Division. The book is in paperback and is a detailed, exdplicit account of the battlefiled. The name of the book is 'Unless You Were There' and the author is Paul J. Andert.


I may order it the next time we order something else. Note the different title.

Unless You Have Been There
by Andert, Paul J.

http://www.amazon.com/Unless-You-Have-Been-There/dp/1412094518

Nightly Reader

  

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JordanTue Oct-23-07 09:39 AM
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#49. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to nightlyreader (Reply # 48)


  

          

That is the book. My typo, sorry.

  

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VijayThu Oct-25-07 12:40 PM
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#50. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 17)


          

India ,Pakistan and North Korea maybe?

  

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JordanSun Oct-21-07 04:59 PM
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#32. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to BobGuy (Reply # 0)


  

          

Another stark warning: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/nation/5232437.html
It's all about leadership.

  

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VijayThu Oct-25-07 02:17 PM
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#55. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Jordan (Reply # 32)


          

Are you guys going to attack Iran now?

Can't you first get Osama?

Vijay

  

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BobGuyThu Oct-25-07 02:54 PM
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#56. "View ProfileRE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Vijay (Reply # 55)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:
Are you guys going to attack Iran now?

Can't you first get Osama?

Vijay


Yes to question 1
No to question 2

  

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BobGuyThu Oct-25-07 04:09 PM
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#58. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to Vijay (Reply # 55)


          

Living with a bush administration is like living in the movie Dr.Strangelove!
(Help, I've fallen and I can't get up!)


Dr. Strangelove - "Mein Führer! I can walk!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD7_7SXsHU8

We are here in real life, just waiting for the final scene to play out!
Probably in Iran.

Dr. Strangelove Final Scene

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU

For some reason this one makes me think of dick cheney.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueuauKKjPZI

  

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81 NewbeeFri Oct-26-07 01:54 AM
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#59. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to BobGuy (Reply # 58)


  

          

See my latest post

81 Newbee

  

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BobGuyFri Oct-26-07 11:22 AM
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#61. "RE: Bush Warns of WW3 if Iran Goes Nuclear"
In response to 81 Newbee (Reply # 59)


          

Mein Führer! I'm going to vegas!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeUsIsaMGU0&NR=1

  

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