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Quote: The only evidence we have is a jerk-off's one side of the story! For all we know, he purposely made himself look more like a thief in the store to add some fuel to the situation and the managers had their eye on him from the get-go.
Now, that's completely manufactured by you. It could be true, but equally true could be his account of things. Since he's going at this from a legal perspective, I tend to think he'd have to stick to the facts. I don't doubt that this was premeditated though, at least in the sense that next time it happened to him he was going to make a scene. He knew the law, and acted within the bounds of it. "No thank you" was an appropriate response to denying what is legally a request. I think it's obvious he had planned on doing this at some point in time, though he did not necessarily instigate it.
Quote: How do you know, have you worked for most stores? I don't know how it's done now, but 6 years ago I followed them until the car was moving and was told I could continue to follow them until they left the property.
There's a difference between store policy and the law, and even within that, what will stand up in court. I said earlier, it really doesn't matter what authority these people think they have. They have to do it right.
Quote: I don't know how many times in my experiences I've heard from the guilty party shout out the classic "oh yeah! well call the cops then, I don't care!". Then when you proceed to do so you can see the "oh shit" look in their eye. They expected you to let them go, not really call the cops.
Obviously, in this case he expected them to call the cops.
Quote: In the middle of the parking lot? Yeah! There aren't phones out there and perp wasn't willing to settle the matter in a civil manner.
Seems to me he was within his rights and with what we have to go on, he was civil. More so than I would have been.
Quote: Yes they will! It's the perfect cover. You buy something in automotive, then put what you want into the bag on your way out the lawn and garden door. Door greeter (if there is one) just looks at your receipt and gives it back to you without even looking in the bag. Or doesn't even check the receipt at all.
That's true... people who set out to steal will do that. But that's not the point. Unless there's at least visual evidence, you can't be compelled to submit.
Quote: Bull! Officers actually have less rights than store managers of searching. Officers are government officials who fall under the 4th amendment right of illegal search and seizure. The officer technically can't touch the guys bag without his permission. But the store official has every right to look into the bag.
Again, every right to request it, not compel it, unless they have evidence to support probable cause.
Police officers have more power and more significantly, more protection than store employees. Store employees had better be right before detaining someone. However, this cop was actually ignorant of the law and similar to the store employees, was more focused on policy.
Quote: And even more bull is that, perp was complaining about giving up his rights to the police and to the retailers. He denied CC a receipt and he denied the cop an ID. But he graciously gave up his 4th amendment right and complied with Mr. Officer with the bag in yet another obvious attempt to be a prick.
Not really, because his intent was for the manager to accuse him of shoplifting and call the police. That's the ultimatum he gave and it's where he was drawing the line. The order to show his drivers license came afterwards, and is a much more serious issue of civil rights. We're arguing whether the store had the right, but it pales in comparison to this. JP made a post earlier to that effect.
Also, you said somewhere that you are confident that Michael Righi is going to lose (and so was I at the beginning, not because I agreed with the arrest but because it would be typical). But that was before I thought hard about this and did some reading.
Note also, that Michael Righi is independently wealthy. He's got the scratch to pursue this even without supporters and donations. At the start, the name sounded awfully familiar to me but I couldn't place it. It's because I'd read about him as a security researcher somewhere before and I've seen him quoted in articles. He became a young entrepreneur, after discovering a flaw in Cobalt servers while he was still in high school. (2003)
He also knows how to play the search engines for publicity too. His blog has appeared in links all over the place (including here) in matters like the Sony CD rootkit debacle and OEM bundled spyware. Methinks they did this to the wrong person.Grogan
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