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basa48Fri Aug-31-07 06:17 PM
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"Forum abuse"


          

I just finished reading the "We Love our Guns" thread and would like to make the following observations.

I think it is now time to stamp heavily on personal abuse in this forum, that thread was allowed to continue way too long.

I would like to see members who post any form of personal attack suspended for up to a week followed by a permanent ban if personal insults continue.

Take note of your own Acceptable Use Policy - to whit:

Quote:
Do not post anything inflammatory with the intention of provoking arguments and antagonizing other posters.


I know of no other forum where such postings would be tolerated.

I have to think that if the protaganists in that thread were face to face a fatal shooting would have occured !!! Which to my mind is another good reason why guns should be made illegal.

Tone
Tone

  

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JohnnyRebWed Aug-29-07 07:57 AM
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#1. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 0)


  

          

While I disagree with the banning idea and stand for what I said, I do agree that yesterday's exchange got way out of hand.

In irritation over a personal attack things rapidly escalated. I accept more than my share of the blame and apologize to those who found it unpleasant and uncalled for.

Peace.

  

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IanwWed Aug-29-07 08:18 AM
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#2. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 0)


          

A few months ago I startd a similar thread, nothing came of it except it was over 100 replies, and other members have also posted their concerns from time to time.

I have noticed that members are not frequenting the forum anywhwhere near as often as they used to do.

Here's another point I made, the time for donating is almost upon us.

In the past few years some members donated twice and some 3 times, now that there are members who do not use the forum anymore, what will now be the outcome.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Enjoy life while you can, don't try when you can't 'cos you won't so then it will be too late.

Ianw

  

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blueroseWed Aug-29-07 08:51 AM
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#3. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 0)


          

I can tell you an accidental visit to this side, followed by a little reading, has greatly diminished my overall opinion, and that of the six people I had invited to visit and donate.

This does not deserve support.

  

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AllynWed Aug-29-07 10:33 AM
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#6. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to bluerose (Reply # 3)
Wed Aug-29-07 10:55 AM by Allyn

          

Your opinion is no doubt shared by others and too many visitors.

I long ago discontinued actively recommending this site to the general membership of the Sun City Hilton Head Computer Club. But I still recommend our more technically inclined members (a small minority) to visit the Computer and Distributed Computing Forums.

  

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dbahnWed Aug-29-07 11:02 AM
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#7. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Allyn (Reply # 6)


  

          

I used to spend a lot of time on the OT forum and enjoyed so much of the discussion. Now I rarely even check it, and when I do I get to a thread like this which sends me to a thread like the Gun thread, then I realize how out of hand it's really become. I just always wonder what satisfaction anyone gets out of just out-insulting someone they despise in the first place.

As others have pointed out, you don't have to dwell on unwanted posts and can just move on. The problem is that everyone moves on except the combatants, and what they leave behind is just a form of internet pollution, like the "We like our guns" example. No wonder people stay away.

Dave



Dell 8300 Dimension
Pentium 4
W XP Home


www.woodenpropeller.com

  

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blueroseWed Aug-29-07 11:20 AM
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#8. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to dbahn (Reply # 7)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:
As others have pointed out, you don't have to dwell on unwanted posts and can just move on. The problem is that everyone moves on except the combatants, and what they leave behind is just a form of internet pollution, like the "We like our guns" example. No wonder people stay away.


My point was not about reading, but about support. Some portion of all monies donated to this service pay for this area to exist.

I am not going to extend the argument. Those who would understand, already do.

  

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jespur62Wed Aug-29-07 09:31 AM
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#4. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 0)


          

I guess I don't get around enough. What happens here happens elsewhere (I've been). Some folks here have chewed over so many topics that they know (or think they know) what the other side is thinking.
Some folks can present their point of view, if no one agrees, just move on. Others feel cornered when their beliefs are doubted and attack.
It's like George Carlin says: My stuff, your shit.

  

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basa48Wed Aug-29-07 10:25 AM
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#5. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jespur62 (Reply # 4)
Wed Aug-29-07 10:27 AM by basa48

          

Quote:
QUOTE:
I guess I don't get around enough. What happens here happens elsewhere (I've been). Some folks here have chewed over so many topics that they know (or think they know) what the other side is thinking.
Some folks can present their point of view, if no one agrees, just move on. Others feel cornered when their beliefs are doubted and attack.
It's like George Carlin says: My stuff, your shit.



That would be great, differing views and opinions are the foundation of a great forum. Unfortunately I see here all too often that some views and opinions are countered only by abusive insults to the opposing persons intelligence or heritage. None of which adds to the discussion.

If you can't counter someones view / opinion without resorting to insults, you have lost the argument.

I'm sure a great many 'would be' posters back out for fear of ridicule or insult, which is a loss for all of us.

With respect it is time the mods here put their collective foot down and handed out a few timely warnings.

Tone
Tone

  

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jazz4freeWed Aug-29-07 11:27 AM
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#9. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 5)
Wed Aug-29-07 11:31 AM by jazz4free

  

          

A few adults became children and got to pushing and shoving and yelling at one another. A couple of grownups (Shelly and Mike) stepped in and sent them to their rooms. Now some of the children, (I include myself among them) have had a chance to cool down and are apologizing for their behavior and asking if they can please come out and play again.

This forum, like many others on the net, is a microcosm of the larger community. There are represented here all types of personality, levels of experience and education, personal interest and temperament.

I doubt you'll find a place on this planet, not even a cloistered Buddhist monastery, where everyone gets along.

People who toss the occasional bread roll at each other across the dining table does not, in my mind, signal the end of civilization or the demise of this forum.

When I come across a thread whose subject matter doesn't interest me or that is tending toward being silly, I either don't read it or stop reading it.

Problem solved.

The moderators here show a proper amount of tolerance. We are lucky to have them. There are other forums of this type where the mods act like minor deities. Discussions that get a little heated are abruptly cut off by self-important bullies who then add another name to their ever-expanding warned or banned list.

They are not fun or interesting places to visit. PC Q&A is!



  

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basa48Wed Aug-29-07 11:52 AM
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#10. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 9)
Wed Aug-29-07 11:54 AM by basa48

          

I know what you say and I take some amusement from the banter, but whilst I'm sure the 'main players' find it entertaining, I am just as sure there will be many who abstain from commenting on the main thread for fear of abuse.

If the moderators feel it inappropriate to suspend or ban abusive posters could they not just edit or remove the offensive posts and warn the poster by PM ?

The discussions could be just as, if not more lively and entertaining without the personal attacks.

Tone
Tone

  

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giseudaWed Aug-29-07 12:29 PM
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#12. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 9)


  

          

More hypocritical puke

  

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jazz4freeWed Aug-29-07 03:53 PM
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#14. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to giseuda (Reply # 12)


  

          

Quote:
More hypocritical puke


Quote:
A few adults became children and got to pushing and shoving and yelling at one another. A couple of grownups (Shelly and Mike) stepped in and sent them to their rooms. Now some of the children, (I include myself among them) have had a chance to cool down and are apologizing for their behavior and asking if they can please come out and play again.


Now some of the children, (I include myself among them) have had a chance to cool down and are apologizing for their behavior and asking if they can please come out and play again.

  

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Ed W.Wed Aug-29-07 04:09 PM
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#15. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 14)


          

Quote:
Now some of the children, (I include myself among them) have had a chance to cool down and are apologizing for their behavior and asking if they can please come out and play again.


Which is worthless as you will do it next week and the week after and apologize again and be proclaimed a *class act gentleman* by a moderator taking part in the same postings. As long as a couple mods act the same, it is impossible to ban unless they are too, which will never happen. Engaging the brain before pressing the post button is what is needed.

I'm with Dave, not worth coming to and supporting as it is.

Ed W.

"IN GOD WE still TRUST - ALL OTHERS, WE used to MONITOR"

  

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jasonlevineWed Aug-29-07 06:21 PM
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#24. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to giseuda (Reply # 12)


  

          

giseuda, thanks for the perfect example of a personal attack. Especially when jazz4free included himself among the "children" who have resorted to personal attacks.

- Jason Levine
Please donate to PCQandA!

  

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giseudaWed Aug-29-07 06:57 PM
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#27. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 24)


  

          

Sorry Jason..I haven't cooled down from yesterday but I'm working on it.

  

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giseudaWed Aug-29-07 11:53 AM
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#11. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 0)


  

          

When you have a moderator chiming in with his own insults, it will never stop.

  

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JordanWed Aug-29-07 03:44 PM
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#13. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 0)


  

          

Quote: "Do not post anything inflammatory with the intention of provoking arguments and antagonizing other posters."
While I do not disagree with your observations it appears that in today's world the Acceptable Use Policy would be difficult to enforce due to the fact that most of the topics posted cause someone to be upset. The same thing has happened in the Computer Forum.

  

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CompPeteWed Aug-29-07 04:12 PM
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#16. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 0)


  

          

Quote:
I would like to see members who post any form of personal attack suspended for up to a week followed by a permanent ban if personal insults continue.


It's a shame grown people need such supervision, but I agree its time for some changes. I support your idea.

  

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bobwWed Aug-29-07 04:52 PM
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#17. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 0)


  

          

I would like to see members who post any form of personal attack suspended for up to a week followed by a permanent ban if personal insults continue.

I don't want to be a pessimist,however banning of those that would still wish to be part of the forum would be fruitless,because " anyone wishing to, could re-register with a new identity and E Mail.It is done in other forums . hell just roll with the punches,most of the crap that goes on here, I forget in a couple of days.This forum, or any other has no control over me. I do believe this"that members should at the least, indicate in their profile, in what part of the World they reside,and be honest about it.

Microsoft Windows XP Home
IE Explorer 7.0 2800 1106
330 Intel Celeron Processor
2.66 GHz
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533Mhz FSB-60 GB HD

  

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ablibWed Aug-29-07 04:57 PM
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#18. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to bobw (Reply # 17)


  

          

Quote:
however banning of those that would still wish to be part of the forum would be fruitless,because " anyone wishing to, could re-register with a new identity and E Mail



Grogan's good! He'll block that person's IP, thus never again being allowed to post, under any name, unless they move somewhere.

Visit the Basement

  

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jasonlevineWed Aug-29-07 06:19 PM
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#23. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to ablib (Reply # 18)


  

          

I doubt it would need to come to that. Not saying that we're planning on banning anyone, but I have a feeling that, if we did ban a poster, they wouldn't be likely to take the trouble to sign up again and again and again. They might pop back once before being re-banned. A few might come back a second time. But only dedicated trouble makers would keep coming back again and again when it's clear that they're not wanted.

- Jason Levine
Please donate to PCQandA!

  

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nightlyreaderWed Aug-29-07 05:03 PM
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#19. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to bobw (Reply # 17)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:

I don't want to be a pessimist,however banning of those that would still wish to be part of the forum would be fruitless, because anyone wishing to, could re-register with a new identity and E Mail. It is done in other forums.


That ploy can be circumvented.

Nightly Reader

  

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jasonlevineWed Aug-29-07 05:03 PM
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#20. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 0)


  

          

I agree that something needs to be done about the name calling. The mods and myself walk a fine line. We don't want to squelch anyone's free speech including (and especially) if we disagree with that person. However, we also don't want the atmosphere in the OT forum to turn toxic. I've opened a discussion with the other moderators to find a solution to this dilemma. It's not going to be easy and definitely won't appear tomorrow. Still, I ask that you be patient with us.

And to those who engage in personal attacks (on both sides of the aisle and even if "the other guy did it first"), I would ask that you think twice before submitting posts that attack other forum members. If you feel the need to, type out your message and then look it over and cancel the post. If you are attacked first, don't retaliate. Take the high road and ignore the person's post. At most, reply with the following:

Quote:
I feel that your post constitutes a personal attack. As per forum rules, I will ignore it as well as any replies to this message. This reply is only to ask that other forum members also ignore your post as well.


Then follow through and ignore the post/replies no matter how "vile" (to borrow one of our member's favorite phrases ) it gets. And everyone else, please respect any posts that have this text (or something like it) attached to it. Don't reply in an attempt to defend the member who is being attacked as he (or she) has already stated that they are ignoring the attack. If enough people did this, the level of discourse in the forums might rise significantly.

- Jason Levine
Please donate to PCQandA!

  

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ablibWed Aug-29-07 05:13 PM
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#21. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 20)


  

          

Definitely not vile!

Visit the Basement

  

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sophie tuckerWed Aug-29-07 06:36 PM
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#25. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to ablib (Reply # 21)
Wed Aug-29-07 06:41 PM by sophie tucker

          

Jason,

this is a reasonable and unemotional approach, and i'm all for giving it a try. i think it's time for me to say you are doing a fine job as the Head Mod.

Tone, thanks to you- and the others- who have started posts or written in posts addressing the problem.

we have a lot of intelligent and well-informed people here, and i like reading the differing opinions. and i'm all for sticking up for your opinion. i think it wouldn't be difficult for intelligent, well-intentioned people to present opinions without resorting to belittlement.

here's to an enjoyable forum once more!

fanfare energized

edit: i meant to thank all the mods for working on this. Hats off to you fine folks!

  

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CompPeteWed Aug-29-07 06:13 PM
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#22. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 20)


  

          

Thanks Jason. I patiently look forward to the outcome of your moderator discussions.

  

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ChariThu Aug-30-07 12:24 AM
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#32. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 20)


  

          

Quote:
I feel that your post constitutes a personal attack. As per forum rules, I will ignore it as well as any replies to this message. This reply is only to ask that other forum members also ignore your post as well.


Good suggestion.Hope it is followed !

  

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LesWed Aug-29-07 06:45 PM
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#26. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 0)
Wed Aug-29-07 07:50 PM by Les

  

          

Quoting jazz4free: "When I come across a thread whose subject matter doesn't interest me or that is tending toward being silly, I either don't read it or stop reading it." Unquote

That's all well and good except when I find a thread of interest such as the one in question I begin to read it for the varying opinions. I intended to add a comment regards my own experience but by then the thread had degenerated into childish bickering and name calling and had nothing to do with the original post. At that point I, and I imagine other visitors and regulars, left without posting our thoughts or experiences. This happens on a lot of posts in here where a few hijack the thread to engage in their insults and name calling. I don't find it amusing nor interesting and the apologies are meaningless and insincere . I've been hanging around here since the old WinMag days and I'll continue to check in and post occasionally but I find it sad to see the direction the forum is headed.

Les

  

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basa48Wed Aug-29-07 07:45 PM
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#28. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Les (Reply # 26)
Wed Aug-29-07 07:48 PM by basa48

          

Not sure if you meant to attribute that quote to me, or using it to make your point in reply to me, but it was in fact made by jazz4free.

However I agree totally with you, that is exactly the experience I'm trying to put across.

To my mind and for starters the mods could at least edit or remove posts and leave an explanation. It is done for duplicate threads etc. so why not inflammatory ones.

However I do realise that mods do have a life outside PCQandA and won't always catch the first outbreak of hostilities !!!

Tone
Tone

  

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LesWed Aug-29-07 07:52 PM
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#29. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 28)


  

          

I was quoting jazz4free. Didn't mean to attribute it to you Tony. I fixed it.

Les

  

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troy614Wed Aug-29-07 10:28 PM
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#30. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 0)


          

Same topic again,different day.
Most likely the outcome will be the same,again.
Jason,I appreciate you taking notice.Hopefully something will be done this time.
The majority dont care for things the way they are.
A few dont mind and think its great,but they are the guilty partys.
Why someone with an opposing view gets belittled is way beyond me.All it does is keep everyone quiet afraid to speak their mind,and decide the forum isnt a place for them.
Please clean up the OT forum for it is a reflection of the PCQ&A computer and distributing computing forum.
Personally,I have been refraining from giving my angered opinion on a few of the threads.Nothing to do with the topic,but the way people are insulting each other.
And has anyone noticed the allowed profanity lately on a "family forum"?
All is good and well if this is allowed,I can swear real well also

Bottom line is,please do something this time.Noone should be afraid to speak.

  

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ToniWed Aug-29-07 11:18 PM
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#31. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to troy614 (Reply # 30)


          

Not that I expect anyone to remember me, or respect my opinion...since I have not been active here for the last couple years. But, I couldn't post anything better than Les' post. This isn't the place I used to enjoy, and yes, I did the donations, and used to really care. Now days it's just a filth pot of angry, mouthy, and self indulging buttholes. I'm glad to see that a few of the one's that remember what a great forum this used to be speaking up!

Toni

  

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JPThu Aug-30-07 12:31 AM
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#33. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 0)


          

Here we go again, a thread complaining about the badhavior of some individuals on this forum! How many times have similar threads been posted here? More than I can remember, but I do remember seeing similar discussions here several times over the years. There must be some truth to the idea that it really is a problem that makes thing unpleasant here for most people if it keeps coming up.

It looks to me that it boils down to two things: Name calling and foul language. Address those and the atmosphere here will improve. Free speech is still possible without name calling and foul language. Any topic there is can be discussed in their absence.
JP

  

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81 NewbeeThu Aug-30-07 03:27 AM
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#34. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to JP (Reply # 33)


  

          

I address this to no one in particular ,but to my second family,(all of you )
What has happened here is a reflection of what has happened to the rest of our society.Lack of respect and crudeness has increased in many areas of life.Politics has become crude and demeaning on both sides of the political spectrum and ,I believe, has influnced the behavior of the man in the street !No longer is it important to defeat an opponent but every effort is made to destroy his character as well.
When I joined this forum it was for the GREAT computer help and that still happens here.I started to post in the OT(off topic)when it was not a separate one,and also learned a lot there by getting all sides of a subject.I truly felt like I knew the people I sparred or communicated with and while things would get testy at times ,personal attacks ,so common today. were rare!In some instances I have communicated with them outside the forum as special members of my second family.I still am active and read all the answers in the Computer Forum and almost all in the OT lounge although I don't join in as much as I once did.When you get my age you realize that you know a little about a lot of things and a lot about a few,so I adopted the clown smiley, as a sort of signature to remind me of that when I finished my post.Some of those whose passion (or ignorance) leads them to attacks are some of those who interest me the most and who can surprise me with the meanness of their posts at times.I try to attribute it to "having a bad day".Cursing me ,belittling me or insulting me will not make me leave or to stop supporting this place, but a little less vitrol would make me more comfortable here.I suggest a few more of you adopt the "clown" to remind you,it does for me that your "opinion" ,though important, is just that.Go ahead TAKE YOUR BEST SHOT.Sincerely..John

81 Newbee

  

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JohnnyRebThu Aug-30-07 05:04 AM
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#35. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 0)
Thu Aug-30-07 07:21 AM by JohnnyReb

  

          

To all those who complain that ot OT forum "was a great place" yet they no longer visit:

If you want a forum to work, leaving and then coming back occasionally to complain that things haven't changed since you left is not really a good strategy.

Either it is worth trying to improve, and you stick around to help, or you really don't care but still come back every year on homecoming week to be able to say how downhill the town has gone since the last time you were there.

Say there are 100 active posters, and 5 are miscreants of some kind. There we have 95% posting "good" items and 5% posting "bad" items. Then some of the "good" posters get fed up, and 50 of them leave. Suddenly the "bad" posters become 10%, and start scaring off even more posters. Soon we have a situation where half the active posting is done by the "bad" posters, with no increase in their actual numbers.

So, what is the problem? The "bad" posters have changed neither their behaviour nor their numbers. The problem is that those contributing to what they thought was a good forum environment left, taking their good posts with them.

If you want this place to change, take an active part. If you don't care then leave. But it is slightly annoying to see the same faces pop up at regular intervals saying how horrible it is, and then disappearing until the next "Oh my God, the OT forum is going to hell!" thread comes up, giving another chance to chime in about how bad it is.

Don't leave everything up to the moderators. They work for free, and we are already getting WAY more than our money's worth. You have ALWAYS been able to do what Jason suggested. In fact, you have also always been able to do some active reminding to others that their behaviour is inappropriate.

But don't forget... this place will never be a land of milk and honey. People WILL disagree. It is in our nature. Some disagreements WILL turn ugly. That, too, is in our nature. Foul language can, and should be avoided. Personal attacks should be avoided, but a complete extinction is probably unlikely. Just try to overcome your voyeuristic tendencies and don't read those posts.

Come back and help shape this forum like you want, or not. Just realize that the fault is not solely to be placed on those left in the forum. Those who left changed the forum just as much through their actions. Maybe not intentionally, but the results are the same.

Edit: Fixed spelling.

  

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giseudaThu Aug-30-07 05:24 AM
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#36. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 35)


  

          

Interesting commentary and advice coming from a participant in the most recent flame war.

  

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JohnnyRebThu Aug-30-07 07:01 AM
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#37. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to giseuda (Reply # 36)


  

          

I feel that your post constitutes the beginnings of a personal attack. As per forum rules, I will ignore it as well as any replies to this message. This reply is only to ask that other forum members also ignore your post as well

  

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ablibThu Aug-30-07 07:18 AM
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#38. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 37)
Thu Aug-30-07 07:21 AM by ablib

  

          

Damn you! I wanted to be the one who first used that! I figured it would of also been me who got to do it first. No fair! You stole my thunder!

Visit the Basement

  

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giseudaThu Aug-30-07 12:29 PM
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#40. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 37)


  

          

Quote:
I feel that your post constitutes the beginnings of a personal attack. As per forum rules, I will ignore it as well as any replies to this message. This reply is only to ask that other forum members also ignore your post as well



I feel that your post constitutes the beginnings of a personal attack. As per forum rules, I will ignore it as well as any replies to this message. This reply is only to ask that other forum members also ignore your post as well

  

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jazz4freeThu Aug-30-07 07:51 AM
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#39. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 35)


  

          

Merci, JR.

  

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fishstickThu Aug-30-07 04:33 PM
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#41. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 39)


          

I have been staying away from here because of comments about my person and I have been visitng for years and have never said anything negative about anyone who spends time here.


Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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LesThu Aug-30-07 05:11 PM
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#42. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 35)


  

          

And how is someone who is not a moderator supposed to fix the forum? Regulars and visitors come here and post an idea or thought. Others chime in and suddenly the children show up and hijack the thread to engage in their usual behavior. Do you think that poster is going to post anything again or are they just going to pack it up and leave? I watched a pretty good tropical fish newsgroup die because of a few posters that constantly started flaming everyone. The good people just left and didn't come back.

Les

  

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JohnnyRebThu Aug-30-07 05:30 PM
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#43. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Les (Reply # 42)
Thu Aug-30-07 05:33 PM by JohnnyReb

  

          

Well, I do not know if it will work, but I think the basic premise is laid out in my post. It may be worth a try, and it is definitely better than wishing this was a better forum, but not actively doing anything about it.

Stay in the forum. Post. Enjoy it. Ignore the "bad" posts.

Dilute the murky water of the forum with good posts...

  

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npmclThu Aug-30-07 06:13 PM
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#44. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 43)


  

          

Seconded.

  

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troy614Thu Aug-30-07 06:45 PM
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#45. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 43)


          

Oh come on now.

Whats wrong with just getting rid of the handful of disobediant posters if they cant behave and abide by forum rules?
It only takes 1 bad apple.

Your "percentage post" above is a perfect example of trying to twist things.What is going to happen when only 5 members are left and its all "bad posters"?

I think there is an easy solution,respect forum rules and there wont be any problems.
If anyone cant do that,find another forum.
Is that asking to much?










In memory of Whipat and Tuff

  

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JohnnyRebThu Aug-30-07 06:58 PM
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#46. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to troy614 (Reply # 45)
Thu Aug-30-07 07:16 PM by JohnnyReb

  

          

Quote:
What is going to happen when only 5 members are left and its all "bad posters"?


That is my point. Those who run away because of the "bad" posters leave the forum in their hands.

So, tell us who to ban? I suppose I should be banned. James? I have seen Noreen get angry a few times. Lil Joe. Jan (sorry dear, you know I love you...) has also gotten angry at least once. Chewy. Jordan. Spy1. Giseuda. Dave101. Shelly....

I think you see what I am getting at. Most people have crossed the line. Should we ban them all? Why not try a less Draconian path first?

EDIT: I am not singling out names in the list... Just pulling them out of hat. Pretty much everybody could be in there.

  

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troy614Thu Aug-30-07 07:16 PM
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#47. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 46)


          

I would currently suggest that nobody gets banned.Everyone starts clean.
Forgive and forget,water under the bridge.

Nothing has to be in stone,nor does there need to be a 100% no tolerance rule.
The mods can see over a certain amount of time, who is continuing to break the forum rules and cause havoc.
Maybe just a "tone it down" pm would work.
A ban would most definitely be the last straw, which hopefully it would never come to that.






  

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JohnnyRebThu Aug-30-07 07:24 PM
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#48. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to troy614 (Reply # 47)


  

          

I am 99.7% sure that we agree in principle.

The problem I see is that we either need "written-in-stone" rules or we need to leave things like they are. If we let things be flexible then we place undue stress and responsibility on the moderators.

"Why did X get warned/banned while Y gets off? Are you playing favorites?" I can see that one coming. In fact I have seen it a number of times already (but I don't want to drag up the threads - bygones and all...)

I see this as a smaller version of the broader society. If no one tells children to behave then they run roughshod. If people tell them to stop acting up, then they usually do. Why don't we give that a try.

All those who have been scared away - come back. Post. Enjoy.

And when Jan acts up, tell her to straighten up and fly straight!

PS Jan - I hope you know I am using you as an example... There are probably others here causing trouble too!

  

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jazz4freeThu Aug-30-07 07:55 PM
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#49. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 48)


  

          

I see you placed my name at the head of the "to be banished" list, you dirty dog.

Merci encore, monsieur le professeur.

  

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JohnnyRebThu Aug-30-07 08:01 PM
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#50. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 49)


  

          

Come on... deep down you know we deserve it. But you noticed that I threw in Jan and Noreen to keep us afloat?

  

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jazz4freeThu Aug-30-07 08:18 PM
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#51. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 50)


  

          

That's why you're the professor.

  

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blueroseFri Aug-31-07 05:54 AM
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#52. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 51)


          

Can you count the number of reasonable people who have left this thread since you children took it over?

You are proving your point very well. You can control any thread at any time........

We will not be back. Enjoy your soley owned forum.

  

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basa48Fri Aug-31-07 06:19 AM
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#53. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to bluerose (Reply # 52)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:
Can you count the number of reasonable people who have left this thread since you children took it over?

You are proving your point very well. You can control any thread at any time........

We will not be back. Enjoy your soley owned forum.


Now that is an attitude almost as destructive as the abuse !

We can all try to bring a sense of reason back into threads that are off course.

No one has suggested a zero tolerance regime, that would be stupid and self defeating. As far as I can tell a lot of people have realised there is a problem and hopefully will react positively to that realisation.

In the meantime I think a few edited / deleted posts (with a suitable PM) will cool things down when required, atm I think that action should happen sooner rather than later.

What we don't want is a nanny state, you can all disagree as much as you want, in fact that is desirable in a good forum, it's called debate. But when it descends into personal attacks or abuse it is one step too far.

Let's face it, the intelligent ones amongst you will know that to descend to personal attacks is the first sign of defeat.

Tone
Tone

  

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JohnnyRebFri Aug-31-07 07:21 AM
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#55. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 53)


  

          

Agreed.

  

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blueroseFri Aug-31-07 08:06 AM
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#57. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 55)


          

As stated earlier, those who would understand, do.

  

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JohnnyRebFri Aug-31-07 08:25 AM
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#58. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to bluerose (Reply # 57)


  

          

Then there is apparently no need to repeat it.

  

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ablibFri Aug-31-07 07:22 AM
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#56. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 53)


  

          

Quote:
Let's face it, the intelligent ones amongst you will know that to descend to personal attacks is the first sign of defeat


I've used that line in an argument or two. It's true.

Visit the Basement

  

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npmclFri Aug-31-07 09:19 AM
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#59. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to ablib (Reply # 56)


  

          

Often it's true but sometimes it's just the result of frustration and annoyance with the attitude (not the argument) of the "opponent".

  

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JohnnyRebFri Aug-31-07 07:15 AM
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#54. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to bluerose (Reply # 52)


  

          

Excuse me, but if you look at my posts in this thread they are all attempts to be constructive (with the exception of my replies to James - that was friendly banter).

I would classify your response as a personal attack as well...

  

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jazz4freeFri Aug-31-07 10:17 AM
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#60. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to bluerose (Reply # 52)
Fri Aug-31-07 10:51 AM by jazz4free

  

          

I was under the impression that personal attacks that deteriorated into disturbing and disruptive bickering was the problem being addressed here. I sat silently for two days, feeling like something of a pinata swinging in the wind while others took their justifiable swipes. But now it's becoming more and more obvious the actual agenda of some here (thankfully, thus far, a minority) is not to achieve a level playing field but to transform the off topic lounge into some sort of sinister version of a ladies sewing circle in which they play the role of hall monitor.

Personal attacks that lead to tunnel-vision adolescent "gotcha" one-upmanship and "vile" exchanges that dominate the room and make others uncomfortable in their home are unconscionable, and it is indeed a serious problem. I have had my blinders removed and now recognize that fact, and recognize also that I contributed to the problem.

I get it! I am more than willing to take it down a peg or two -- even three. But if I am no longer permitted to have either an opinion that in argument at times takes a edge of irony or even sarcasm. Or if others are no longer able to take their best shot at me in return. Or if rough but friendly banter among friends is no longer permitted, and a threatening sword of Damocles hangs constantly over the head of those who do "disobedience" of the rules, then this will not be the place for me. And at least a small part of your perceived problem will be solved.

If what you want to achieve here is a mutual admiration society overseen by a big brother and his politically-correct enforcers who patrol the corridors to keep the peace, then, my advice to you, for the little it's worth, is be careful because you just may get what you wish for.

JohnnyReb went out of his way to propose reasonable solutions, as did Jason. So far JR has been excoriated by some for his effort, and Jason's proposition of personally, on-the-spot, putting offenders on notice has been mocked by at least one fool, known well to all, who's name need not be mentioned.

Now, this was intended as a general observation and certainly not meant as a personal attack, but then again, I don't have a gigantic stick up my ass, so I approach these things from a slightly different perspective.

  

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giseudaFri Aug-31-07 11:27 AM
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#61. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 60)


  

          

Quote:
JohnnyReb went out of his way to propose reasonable solutions, as did Jason. So far JR has been excoriated by some for his effort, and Jason's proposition of personally, on-the-spot, putting offenders on notice has been mocked by at least one fool, known well to all, who's name need not be mentioned.


See?...You couldn't resist. You're right back to the name calling and insult game. You and several others continue your attempt to dominate this forum, no matter what. Shelly has had nothing to say in this thread to this point, I wonder why?
If this comment gets me tossed, then so be it. You don't need me to run everybody else out of here

  

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ablibFri Aug-31-07 11:34 AM
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#62. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to giseuda (Reply # 61)


  

          

As far as I know, only one dweeb has been tossed and he was a lot worse than you.

Visit the Basement

  

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giseudaFri Aug-31-07 12:15 PM
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#67. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to ablib (Reply # 62)


  

          

Thanks for the compliment.

  

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jasonlevineFri Aug-31-07 12:30 PM
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#68. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to ablib (Reply # 62)


  

          

Actually, a few people have been tossed over the years, but overall not that many. Most times it will be for spamming attempts. A few times it was for general disruptiveness. Most of the tossed never come back (with one infamous exception who will go unnamed - long time members will know who I'm talking about ).

- Jason Levine
Please donate to PCQandA!

  

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ablibFri Aug-31-07 12:50 PM
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#70. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jasonlevine (Reply # 68)


  

          

That's the one I was talking about.

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeFri Aug-31-07 12:09 PM
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#65. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to giseuda (Reply # 61)


  

          

If you recognize yourself among the anonymous, then perhaps there is hope for you.

Shelly, obviously, is able to speak for himself, but he has made his feelings on this very matter known several times in the past.

Since he now faces accusations of being biased, as usual, he does wise to keep counsel and let fools like us argue the matter among ourselves.

  

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npmclFri Aug-31-07 12:42 PM
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#69. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 65)


  

          

Quote:
Shelly, obviously, is able to speak for himself, but he has made his feelings on this very matter known several times in the past.
Haven't we all, numerous times. Personally if I don't like the way a thread is going, whether I started the thread or not, I usually just ignore it in the future. However I enjoy the good arguments here and don't want to see this forum deteriorate into a "ladies sewing circle".

  

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jazz4freeFri Aug-31-07 02:21 PM
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#73. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 69)


  

          

Oh, am I tired of this thread, Love!

Wimps and whiners.

I gotta go. My ride is here.

  

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Kiwi2022Fri Aug-31-07 02:23 PM
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#74. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 73)


  

          

Bye James, have a great time with your friends. Enjoy the day!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



"A woman's heart is an ocean of secrets."
Rose Dawson; from the movie "Titanic"

  

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Kiwi2022Fri Aug-31-07 02:36 PM
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#77. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 69)


  

          

Quote:
QUOTE:
However I enjoy the good arguments here and don't want to see this forum deteriorate into a "ladies sewing circle".


I totally agree with you Noreen and I don't think any one is really asking for that to take place.

I know I wasn't one to run to a moderator about the dislikes of the post being made the other night when they got locked but I did see it all. I just moved on to a different thread, easy enough. Although with that being said if I had wanted to voice my opinion that I thought it was getting out of hand I would have done so right here in the thread with the best of them. James so often makes the statement that we are all entitled to our opinion and that is true. No sense in crying to the mods to take care of this problem. It is the members ONLY that can correct this.

I will say that I'm sure we will all agree it got a little too heated for comfort. Its history now, it's over and hopefully we can all move on with some respect for one another.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



"A woman's heart is an ocean of secrets."
Rose Dawson; from the movie "Titanic"

  

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blueroseFri Aug-31-07 11:34 AM
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#63. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 60)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:
1. ladies sewing circle in which they play the role of hall monitor.

2. mocked by at least one fool, known well to all, who's name need not be mentioned.

3. I don't have a gigantic stick up my ass, .


1. ladies' sewing circles have hall monitors?

2 & 3 Very adult-like. And polite. I see you have learned very well.


  

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ablibFri Aug-31-07 11:44 AM
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#64. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to bluerose (Reply # 63)


  

          

Quote:
I see you have learned very well.


I hate to be the pessimist, but he isn't going to learn anything and either is anyone else. "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" is very apropos here, as the majority of the people on this forum are over 50 and set in their ways.

This is like the 100th "direction of the forum" threads. Nothing will change.


As long as the PC help in the computer forum stays top notch then at least we will have that. After all that's why we're here because of the computer forum.


In the meantime....people will come, people will go as they always do. It would just be nice to get some fresh meat in the pit to add something new other than broken record comments. Hopefully some conservative fresh meat, need to level the playing field here


For what it's worth, it still isn't NEARLY as bad as it was around the '04 elections.

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeFri Aug-31-07 12:14 PM
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#66. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to ablib (Reply # 64)


  

          

Quote:
I hate to be the pessimist, but he isn't going to learn anything and either is anyone else. "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" is very apropos here, as the majority of the people on this forum are over 50 and set in their ways.


Thank you for the insight, Whippersnapper.

  

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jazz4freeFri Aug-31-07 01:54 PM
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#71. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to bluerose (Reply # 63)


  

          

Quote:
I see you have learned very well.


Besides pointing out an ill-considered metaphor, what lesson have you, or your ilk, to teach me?

You have not been bullied here by me. If you feel you have been shut out of your home by tyrants, kick in the door, engage in the debate, start one of your own. This is a public forum open to all who conduct themselves with reason.

I haven't broken the rules of conduct here. I haven't a foul mouth or mind. I have opinions and I express them, to your face. Now and again I go over the top, almost always because I refuse to suffer fools gladly.

I'll be damned if I'll be cowed by a handful of whiners who come here intermittently to complain about the loss of decorum and who plead for a return to the golden age. The past is dead; your old friends, as are most of mine, dead; Winmag is dead. My mother and father are dead! Comity and reason are dead! I mourn the loss of all that and more.

Soon I'll be dead, but whether it is here or elsewhere, I'll go to my grave speaking my mind.

Come, go, stay, leave -- but how dare you threaten the effort of the generous and selfless people here like Jason, Mike and Shelly who have given us all not only a platform for our thoughts but an invaluable resource in the computer forum, with what amounts to blackmail: agree to reform and kick out the bums or we withdraw our financial support and you will die.

With friends like that, who is in need of enemies?

I respect Robert, whom I despise, and my young antagonist, Whippersnapper, whom I consider brain dead most of the time, more than those who stand on the sidelines and threaten, every two months or so, while waving their checkbooks, to close up this shop if their demands are not met.

All I have to contribute here is $40 per year and opinion. Should you decide, you need be rid of my opinion, I'll still continue to contribute my $40.

But there will always be someone, perhaps even worse, to take my place.

Think of it.

It's Friday. I'm off to play chess and drink beer with my friends. We'll probably argue politics and shit and call each other and our sainted mothers bad names, but since we are not armed, no gunfire will be exchanged.









  

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Paul DFri Aug-31-07 02:30 PM
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#76. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to giseuda (Reply # 75)


  

          

Quote:
QUOTE:
Is that how it works in Canada?


Was that line really necessary? Not just a wee bit xenophobic?



Paul D

  

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ShellyFri Aug-31-07 03:05 PM
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#79. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 76)


  

          

It was not and I removed it.

Shelly

  

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giseudaFri Aug-31-07 03:31 PM
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#81. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 79)


  

          

That's good Shelly. Perfect example of what I and others have said.

If it doesn't fit your criteria, political or religious view, pull it and/or lambast the poster.

  

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giseudaFri Aug-31-07 03:07 PM
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#80. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Paul D (Reply # 76)


  

          

No Paul...My comment wasn't necessary. I have nothing against anybody from a foreign country to me. I've been to Thailand, Vietnam, Brazil, Canada, Guam and Okinawa.

I've never been to Europe.

Never had a problem with anybody from the above mentioned countries.

James response to Bluerose was more s*** to keep the pot stirred. IMO

  

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jazz4freeSat Sep-01-07 02:00 AM
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#91. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to giseuda (Reply # 80)


  

          

I have been to the center of the universe.

  

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giseudaSat Sep-01-07 02:13 AM
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#93. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 91)


  

          

Yeah...I'll bet you have.

  

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ablibSat Sep-01-07 01:02 AM
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#89. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 71)


  

          

Quote:
my young antagonist, Whippersnapper, whom I consider brain dead most of the time,


Keep at it. For those who don't know you yet, they need to know. The coup is growing.

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeSat Sep-01-07 01:41 AM
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#90. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to ablib (Reply # 89)


  

          

Whippersnapper, I lost three out of five chess matches today.

You probably would have fared better.

  

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ablibSat Sep-01-07 10:34 AM
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#94. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 90)


  

          

It probably wouldn't suprise you, but I hate chess. It's ok I hate checkers too.


Now you got some more fuel, along with not reading to nag at me for in every other post.

Visit the Basement

  

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npmclSat Sep-01-07 11:12 AM
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#95. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to ablib (Reply # 94)


  

          

  

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ablibSat Sep-01-07 11:15 AM
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#96. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 95)
Sat Sep-01-07 11:16 AM by ablib

  

          

I'm glad you liked that. I'm here to brighten your day!

Good morning Noreen!


Edit: I guess it's good afternoon for you.

Visit the Basement

  

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npmclSat Sep-01-07 11:26 AM
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#97. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to ablib (Reply # 96)


  

          

Quote:
Edit: I guess it's good afternoon for you
Yes it is, however good morning to you Adam.

  

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HauxfanSun Sep-02-07 12:22 PM
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#98. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 97)


          

Shelley, you're a curmudgeon, but a really likeable one!

Not that I have any faults.....

Keep up the good work.....

Hauxfan!

  

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Kiwi2022Fri Aug-31-07 02:19 PM
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#72. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 46)


  

          

Quote:
QUOTE:

So, tell us who to ban? I suppose I should be banned. James? I have seen Noreen get angry a few times. Lil Joe. Jan (sorry dear, you know I love you...) has also gotten angry at least once. Chewy. Jordan. Spy1. Giseuda. Dave101. Shelly....


It's a darn good thing you added that "sorry dear, you know I love you..." or you would have had to see me get angry twice now!

Hey, we are only human and we all have our moments. Unfortunately some have their moments a lot more than others! *winks*

Top of the mornin' to ya all!

Wow, it is a beautiful day here in St. Louie! It's probably about 65 maybe 70 degrees here, the sun is shining, blue skies and a nice gentle breeze, absolutely wonderful!

It's also a long weekend here for us folks in the US. Its Labor Day weekend for those that may not know. It has a genuine meaning but to me it is also kind of a reminder that summer is just about over. We have our end of the year BBQ's, air shows, and such. The pools will close down this weekend. The lakes are crowded with people trying to get that last bit of partying in for the summer. *grins*

Autumn is soon approaching. "My time sure clicks by now, doesn't it? *sighs* All the more reason we need to stop and enjoy every moment while we can. All of us need to stop and enjoy life, enjoy the people in our life a little more.

One of my favorite quotes comes from Alfred D Souza....

"For a long time it had seemed to me that life was about to begin. But there was always some obstacle in the way, something to be gotten through first, some unfinished business, time still to be served, a debt to be paid. Then life would begin. At last it dawned on me that these obstacles were my life."

Folks, take the time to make it a GREAT day, and I Hope You Dance.*smiles*

I wasn't planning on making this post quite so long. I'm through with my little sermon now, just kind of the mood I'm in when I crawled out of bed this morning.



Hope everyone has a great weekend, be safe and dance, or go roll around in the grass!

Oh yes, and Bluerose, don't let em run you off. I'm sure they are all good folk; we just need to whip em in line every now and again. *winks*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



"A woman's heart is an ocean of secrets."
Rose Dawson; from the movie "Titanic"

  

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LilJoeFri Aug-31-07 04:26 PM
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#82. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Kiwi2022 (Reply # 72)


  

          

Hope everyone has a great weekend, be safe and dance, or go roll around in the grass!
---------------------------
Would love to roll around in the grass with ya, but my grass has burned up in this August heat.
Maybe next springtime. biggrin

LilJoe

  

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Bluerose9Mon Sep-03-07 08:27 AM
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#100. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Kiwi2022 (Reply # 72)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:
QUOTE:

Oh yes, and Bluerose, don't let em run you off. I'm sure they are all good folk; we just need to whip em in line every now and again. *winks*


Not much chance of that. For relaxation and enjoyment, I umpired college and high school baseball in the Midwest for 32 years. There was an argument or two, although I never lost one.

The difference was that not one coach or player ever had to stoop to insulting the person, they were all bright and mature enough to carry on the argument discussing the facts.

It is the gross insults of the person I don't get. If these children are supposed to be intelligent, why can they never argue the facts? It is as though they know no facts, so they must immediately revert to name calling. It reads like a pile of six year olds at recess and in their first argument outside the family setting.

Now I manage one Oracle database in Europe, and one in Tokyo. Nothing is accomplished without argument.

Sorry for the delay in response. My wife and I cruised the Rhein River this weekend and just got back in late last night. The Germans argue everything. While I am now conversant, when they start the high-speed bickering, I can't really tell exactly what they are arguing. Some may very well fit right in here.

My point was never to eliminate, nor even reduce the arguments, just to remember this is advertised as a family sight. I have invited all four children, and several (of 8) grandchildren to visit here to learn about modern computing.

PC Q&A is, I feel, the top resource open to the computing public, and I hate to see it reduced to garbage by a few not bright enough to stick to the facts.

It has been embarrassing to have to send out advisories to all family members to stay away from the Off Topic Landfill.

Now we are off to Frieberg to visit Elvis’s apartment and museum there. Over here, he is not dead. Never died. Never gonna die.

Thank you for the concern. Have a great Holiday when you wake.

John

p.s. Had to re-register. Our email addies change often, and I had not updated my profile here. Added the 9 to retain association.

  

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JohnnyRebMon Sep-03-07 09:44 AM
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#101. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Bluerose9 (Reply # 100)


  

          

Quote:
PC Q&A is, I feel, the top resource open to the computing public, and I hate to see it reduced to garbage.


Yet again the subject comes up that the OT forum somehow diminishes from the Computing forum.

I, for the life of me, can't see how that could happen. People go to the computing forum to give or receive help. And that is exactly what it is there for. And that is exactly what it does. My bet is that 90% of the people who come to PCQ&A never even look at the OT forum, since they are interested in "On Topic" posts. It took me almost 4 years after becoming a member to really check this place out. The first time I read was probably around the 2004 elections. I did not like the tone and left. Later I checked back in, started posting, and started liking it more. The really positive fact is that you almost never see any anger crossing over into the computing forum.

If people are so fragile that they let the OT forum scare them off from the computing forum, where they can receive qualified, FREE help for their computer problems then they are fools. Shun this place. Ignore it. The computing forum is reasonably friendly.

If you want to see really positive, friendly people, start crunching for WCG and hang out in the basement. There you can have all the friendly, non-confrontational banter that you could ever want.

  

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Kiwi2022Mon Sep-03-07 11:14 AM
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#102. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 101)


  

          

Quote:
QUOTE:
Not much chance of that. For relaxation and enjoyment, I umpired college and high school baseball in the Midwest for 32 years. There was an argument or two, although I never lost one.


Fantastic for you! That had to be a great time in your life! I say that as my youngest son played baseball from when he was only about 6 playing T-Ball and played every year all the way through to high school. I have spent many of day out at the ball parks and did some traveling with the team for away games. I loved it and sure miss it today. My son played up a year for the varsity high school team. His positions were pitcher and 3rd base. He has quite an arm on him, I'll tell ya. I'm his mother I can say that.

I admire you and have a lot of respect for you. Umpiring college and high school teams couldn't have always been easy. I know from being out at the games that the umpires took a beating many times when the players or the coaches felt the umps made the wrong calls. Sometimes they deserved it. I'm teasing. Many times they did not! Unfortunately the umpires would take the heat from all directions. It's a tough job as decisions must be made on every pitch and every play. You must concentrate fully on the game and anticipate what you need to do next. It truly is not an easy job. Thank you for dedicating your time to the boys.



Quote:
QUOTE:Sorry for the delay in response. My wife and I cruised the Rhein River this weekend and just got back in late last night.


Sounds as though you are enjoying the good life now, good for you! *smiles*

Quote:
QUOTE:I have invited all four children, and several (of 8) grandchildren to visit here to learn about modern computing.


One short of having your own baseball team.

Johnny had the perfect idea:

Quote:
QUOTE:

If you want to see really positive, friendly people, start crunching for WCG and hang out in the basement. There you can have all the friendly, non-confrontational banter that you could ever want.


With all the children and grand children you have I am sure you have a few computers. *winks* We'd love to have you help our team and at the same time have that enormously good feeling of doing something to help others! Come see us in the basement.

John, yes it is a holiday and I plan on enjoying every minute of it, thank you. You enjoy Frieberg as well!

Have a great day.

~~~~~~~~

Oh yes Johnny, you must have boosted your machines up again. Putting out some nice numbers! *thumbs up* Nice crunching.....












~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



"A woman's heart is an ocean of secrets."
Rose Dawson; from the movie "Titanic"

  

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Bluerose9Mon Sep-03-07 12:04 PM
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#103. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Kiwi2022 (Reply # 102)


          

Thank you Jan.

I still get messages, notes and posts from middle aged men who tell me I influenced them as young men. I was having a blast, but yes, there were days and games that tested my patience. There was never a game when I wished to be, or would rather have been, somewhere else.

The biggest honor was that Commissioners and coaches from leagues, schools and tournaments requested my presence for ten times more games than I could physically get to. (My apologies for the hanging participle; the correct grammar sounded silly)

Most High School, and virtually all College, coaches were very easy to work with. They had all been around the game enough to know why the umpires were there.

The people you meet along the way are the biggest reward. Several people with whom I worked on the field of play went on to pro sports, and at least one is now a member of a professional sport HoF.

It was at once, the hardest and best work I have ever done. Wish it could have lasted another 30 years. Foul balls to the knee caps finally did me in.

I enjoy a good argument more than most, and have never suggested they be reduced. Everyone misses that. I only wish they could be more civil. Not less intense, more civil. Not fewer in number, more civil. I am not the wimp or pansy who wants no discontent, I thrive on discontent, just wish it could be more civil. I have gone toe to toe with many physical monsters and enjoyed every minute. It is part of that at which I excel.

They think this side of the forum is somehow disconnected from the other because that is the way they wish it to be. But it isn't. And they will jump right back now and tell me what a wimp and fool I am for wanting to shout down the discourse.

Maybe if we are all adults, and all have offspring, we could stick to writing tomes we would be proud to print and show our grandchildren, the childishness would be reduced. But it won't.

My wife and I are enjoying Europe and Asia. The job allows us to go where we want, at our leisure. We now get to personally experience many places about which we had only previously read. The Black Forest awaits us now as our next first-time experience.

We were both stricken with cancer in 2006, and have discussed the possibility of joining the computing cause. We are survivors. To date at least. Your personal invitation will receive a positive response. Thank you.

John

  

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Bluerose9Mon Sep-03-07 04:18 PM
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#104. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Kiwi2022 (Reply # 102)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:
< I say that as my youngest son played baseball from when he was only about 6 playing T-Ball and played every year all the way through to high school. I have spent many of day out at the ball parks and did some traveling with the team for away games. I loved it and sure miss it today. My son played up a year for the varsity high school team. His positions were pitcher and 3rd base. He has quite an arm on him, I'll tell ya. I'm his mother I can say that. [br /> It truly is not an easy job. Thank you for dedicating your time to the boys.


I am certain your son knows by now just how lucky he is to have such an involved Mom. And I will bet he turned out OK as well. It is so easy to predict when you see who shows up for the games and practices, and especially who shows up to help the team travel. Travel days for young baseball teams are the best days of all. Winning correctly takes a back seat to doing.

When a young team leaves the envelope and travels to new environs, it becomes much more apparent to them, and to everyone who comes across them, how special they are. Even at that young age, most choose to stand on the sideline and complain, few have the courage to step on the field and expose to the world their abilities and inabilities.

In almost every case, that courage comes from parents. Non participants would think it reverse, but the players who know it does not matter if they mess up a little, are to one who have positive parents in the bleachers.

Winning matters. Trying matters more. I have never met a baseball player I did not love.

Hope over-zealous coaches did not over throw your son's arm to badly. Has he ever umpired? It is the absolute best way to repay, and to stay in, the game.

Baseball is THE game.

John

  

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Kiwi2022Tue Sep-04-07 06:42 AM
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#106. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Bluerose9 (Reply # 104)


  

          

Quote:
QUOTE:
Thank you Jan.

I still get messages, notes and posts from middle aged men who tell me I influenced them as young men. I was having a blast, but yes, there were days and games that tested my patience. There was never a game when I wished to be, or would rather have been, somewhere else.

The biggest honor was that Commissioners and coaches from leagues, schools and tournaments requested my presence for ten times more games than I could physically get to. (My apologies for the hanging participle; the correct grammar sounded silly)

Most High School, and virtually all College, coaches were very easy to work with. They had all been around the game enough to know why the umpires were there.

The people you meet along the way are the biggest reward. Several people with whom I worked on the field of play went on to pro sports, and at least one is now a member of a professional sport HoF.

It was at once, the hardest and best work I have ever done. Wish it could have lasted another 30 years. Foul balls to the knee caps finally did me in.


How nice to still get messages, that's wonderful and must make you feel quite proud. So often unfortunately, and I hate to say this but there are many people that seem to be so down on our younger generation sadly. I think if they would just open their eyes and look around they would see we have some great young men and women out there.

I too just being a mom in the bleachers have met many nice people along the way. As I said I really miss it today. Although my son and I will still go out and watch some of the other teams here in the community play every so often and we don't even know a player on the team. *grins* Nothing could be better on a Sunday afternoon than watching these young guys play a great game of baseball, a cold beer, and a hotdog!

I'm so happy for you that you enjoyed yourself all those years. You can sure tell that you did so in the words you write.


Quote:
QUOTE:My wife and I are enjoying Europe and Asia. The job allows us to go where we want, at our leisure. We now get to personally experience many places about which we had only previously read. The Black Forest awaits us now as our next first-time experience.


Absolutely wonderful! I'm long overdue for a vacation. My last trip was to Italy in 2002 and so I'm itching to get away again. I have never gone this long between traveling out of the country. I'm sure it won't be until next spring or summer now as I have taken on a major house remodeling project. I have had a contractor in my house since May 9th, and am looking very forward to it being done within the next couple weeks, I hope. *fingers crossed* There are so many wonderful and beautiful places to see, isn't there?

Quote:
QUOTE:We were both stricken with cancer in 2006, and have discussed the possibility of joining the computing cause. We are survivors. To date at least. Your personal invitation will receive a positive response. Thank you.


"We are survivors", excellent news!

John, we would love to have you as a member of our team but I was just kidding with you, well kind of. *giggles* I don't want to come across as begging or being some sort of high pressured salesperson but darnit, join us.

Quote:
QUOTE:
I am certain your son knows by now just how lucky he is to have such an involved Mom. And I will bet he turned out OK as well. It is so easy to predict when you see who shows up for the games and practices, and especially who shows up to help the team travel. Travel days for young baseball teams are the best days of all. Winning correctly takes a back seat to doing.

When a young team leaves the envelope and travels to new environs, it becomes much more apparent to them, and to everyone who comes across them, how special they are. Even at that young age, most choose to stand on the sideline and complain, few have the courage to step on the field and expose to the world their abilities and inabilities.

In almost every case, that courage comes from parents. Non participants would think it reverse, but the players who know it does not matter if they mess up a little, are to one who have positive parents in the bleachers.

Winning matters. Trying matters more. I have never met a baseball player I did not love.

Hope over-zealous coaches did not over throw your son's arm to badly. Has he ever umpired? It is the absolute best way to repay, and to stay in, the game.

Baseball is THE game.

John


Wow John, you sure say the things I felt most as a mother to a son that played baseball. I can say with great pride in all the years my son played baseball I may have missed a total of no more than 5 games. Believe me the games I missed couldn't be helped but I was on the phone with his dad or brother that was there getting the play by play.

Fortunately my son's father coached many of the games until he reached high school level, than of course it was the high school coaches. Having his dad coach he was very concerned about the pitch count and wouldn't allow the pitchers to throw more than what was the norm. All the coaches were very good about keeping a pitch count and would not break that rule very often, if at all. I'm sure it did happen occasionally but certainly not if it could be helped.

Yes, he did umpire for a summer after he graduated. He actually loved it but than it became too demanding with work and preparing for college.

Wow, we certainly turned this thread into "our thread" now. It wasn't intentional but some may think so!

I would like to leave a picture that is a favorite of mine before I sign off for the night.



This was a picture taken from a select team that he played for several years ago. I love this picture because he is so focused on the batter right before he was going to make his pitch. I can see in his mind him deciding what ball he was going to throw. I'd like to say he threw a strike but I truly don't know.

Have a good day, John... this girl better think about getting to bed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



"A woman's heart is an ocean of secrets."
Rose Dawson; from the movie "Titanic"

  

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ChariMon Sep-03-07 11:50 PM
Member since Feb 20th 2002
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#105. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Bluerose9 (Reply # 100)
Tue Sep-04-07 07:02 AM by Chari

  

          

Quote:
Had to re-register.Our email addies change often, and I had not updated my profile here. Added the 9 to retain association.


Check with Web administrator.He may be able to restore the old ID after identification.

  

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ShellyFri Aug-31-07 02:57 PM
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#78. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 0)


  

          

With interest, I have been reading this thread for a few days and have kept silent. We have not been so silent on our private staff forum, and the behavior here, mostly by a small number of members, has been a subject of discussion for quite a while.

The staff is a diverse group with strong feelings regarding free speech, and personal temperament of our members. Many here contribute a great amount of information to the group, some contribute nothing of value, and most fall somewhere in between. Nearly all are adults and are treated as such.

My view of membership is simple, anyone has the option of coming here if they find some benefit, or leaving if they do not. I don't care who stays or goes, but we have some responsibility to maintain a level of decency. and a level of discussion that most reasonable people can accept. If you choose not to help in fund drives, welcome to the majority, 75% of you never have. If we do not receive enough support from the rest, we will go dark, and you will miss us when we are gone. Our lives will go on.

There are some posts containing sexual innuendo that may make some uncomfortable, but they are intended as humor and not designed to hurt anyone. We have usually turned a blind eye to these unless they cross the line to being pornography. we can't define pornography exactly for you, but we all know it when we see it. We will continue to judge every post individually and only intervene for excessive bad taste. That line may differ among us. Some ore more easily offended.

Argument in threads is inevitable in any real discussion. There are many ways to disagree and even more ways to be disagreeable. We ask that profanity and "fighting words" be avoided. they do no good for anyone. But a clever turn of phrase, or cleaver repartee can be stimulating and effective. It has always been used in debate, and you will find many examples in the debates in the British parliament and US congress,that have become classic and are often quoted. There is nothing wrong with wit, and it should be encouraged.

Any person too thin skinned to be the butt of well formulated barbs, and the wits to answer in kind should avoid this place, or limit your participation to the more gentle threads. If your idea of repartee is barroom swearing and challenges to fight, you have no place here, or in any civil company. This is a discussion forum, not a wall in a public bathroom.

As for me, If I think someone is a jerk, I will try to find some civil way to let them know my feelings. They are free to find a civil way to disagree with me.

An election year is soon to be upon us. If past experience is prelude to future behavior, there will be some heated discussions here as the election nears. I hope we can keep it heated, but not reach a point of saying things that we regret the next day.

Let me assure you that the only "hall monitors" here will be the moderators, who have that position because they have proven themselves to be capable of using good judgment, whether you happen to agree with them or not. We only have taken action in the past on a fraction of the complaints we receive.

My intentions are simple. I will lock any thread that veers into bad taste, or childish squabbling. I will delete any post that is crudely abusive. If that post is quoted in a reply I will either edit out the quotation or delete the entire reply. If you find your posts missing without any explanation, you can figure out why and change your behavior. Just be happy you did not disappear along with your posts. I hope the other moderators will do the same if I don't get to the post first.

Do not expect an absence of disagreement. Without it this forum would be pointless and deadly dull. This is a discussion forum, not a tea party. If you seek a tea party, seek elsewhere.

On a personal note, I have moderated these forum's for over ten years, I have never received, or asked for any compensation, and I never will. A number of you have thought it cute or a display of bravery to attack or insult me, often ungrateful wretches I had helped numerous times. I have been disliked for my knowledge, my education, my background, my politics, my successes in life, and what I say. Yet not one person here has ever seen me use my position or ability to retaliate against them. All have seen me help people who may have attacked me the previous day or week. I never hold grudges, but if you don't want me to tell you in a civil way what I think of you, stay away from me. I will be here until death retires me. Either mine or the forum's.

Shelly

  

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LilJoeFri Aug-31-07 04:36 PM
Member since Jun 28th 2004
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#83. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 78)


  

          

I will be here until death retires me. Either mine or the forum's.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey, that's what I was going to say!

Now I'm at a loss of words

LilJoe

  

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ShellyFri Aug-31-07 05:27 PM
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#85. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to LilJoe (Reply # 83)


  

          

Hey, I waited 3 days!

Shelly

  

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JPSat Sep-01-07 02:01 AM
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#92. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 85)
Sat Sep-01-07 03:21 PM by JP

          

C'mon Shelly, you know that "huntin' pecker" one finger typist takes that long to reply!
JP

  

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MardonFri Aug-31-07 04:55 PM
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#84. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 78)


          

Well said Shelly.

Mardon



Gun Control is hitting what you shoot at!!

  

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DarrenFri Aug-31-07 06:33 PM
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#86. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 78)


  

          

I've always admired you for those assets.

Quote:
I have been disliked for my knowledge, my education, my background, my politics, my successes in life, and what I say.

  

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basa48Fri Aug-31-07 08:11 PM
Member since Apr 18th 2002
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#87. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 78)
Fri Aug-31-07 08:13 PM by basa48

          

I'm glad that you Shelly have got the grasp of the intention of my OP.

In no way did I intend to turn the Lounge into a Grannies Knitting Cicle. I love debate, even heated (although I am not the greatest orator). What is unacceptable is the personal stuff. Things like 'cowardly bastard', 'inbreeding', 'trash' (in reference to a person or in trailer...), 'punk' all of which tends to divert from the purpose of the thread.

I do love a good argument though !

Tone
Tone

  

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troy614Fri Aug-31-07 08:49 PM
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#88. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 87)


          

Quote:
QUOTE:
I'm glad that you Shelly have got the grasp of the intention of my OP.

In no way did I intend to turn the Lounge into a Grannies Knitting Cicle. I love debate, even heated (although I am not the greatest orator). What is unacceptable is the personal stuff. Things like 'cowardly bastard', 'inbreeding', 'trash' (in reference to a person or in trailer...), 'punk' all of which tends to divert from the purpose of the thread.

I do love a good argument though !


And I 100% agree.Its the personal insults and such that should be stopped.
The sewing circle is something that got twisted into the topic,I dont think anyone wants or expects that.
And that is the end of this thread for me

  

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AcadiaSun Sep-02-07 09:36 PM
Member since Oct 13th 2002
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#99. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 78)


  

          

Quote:
QUOTE:
With interest ... Either mine or the forum's.

  

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Night_rider666Tue Sep-04-07 11:45 AM
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#107. "RE: Forum abuse"
In response to basa48 (Reply # 0)


  

          

Seeems to me a simple rule of thumb should be don't post anything you wouldn't be prepared to say to someones face. Hiding behind a screen is the easiest thing in the world. Ofcourse there will always be someone who will say it to your face




'Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity'

System Specs

  

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