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pakoWed Mar-14-07 07:49 PM
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"Bush Lied"


          

If The Bush Administration Lied About WMD, So Did These People -- Version 3.0
by John Hawkins
Since we haven't found WMD in Iraq, a lot of the anti-war/anti-Bush crowd is saying that the Bush administration lied about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. Well, if they're going to claim that the Bush administration lied, then there sure are a lot of other people, including quite a few prominent Democrats, who have told the same "lies" since the inspectors pulled out of Iraq in 1998. Here are just a few examples that prove that the Bush administration didn't lie about weapons of mass destruction...

"e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." -- From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

"Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities" -- From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright, 1998

"(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983" -- National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002

"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat... Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001... He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we." -- Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

"The debate over Iraq is not about politics. It is about national security. It should be clear that our national security requires Congress to send a clear message to Iraq and the world: America is united in its determination to eliminate forever the threat of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Bob Graham, December 2002

"Saddam Hussein is not the only deranged dictator who is willing to deprive his people in order to acquire weapons of mass destruction." -- Jim Jeffords, October 8, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed." -- Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- John F. Kerry, Oct 2002

"The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation." -- John Kerry, October 9, 2002

"(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. ...And now he is miscalculating America�s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War." -- John Kerry, Jan 23, 2003

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." -- Carl Levin, Sept 19, 2002

"Every day Saddam remains in power with chemical weapons, biological weapons, and the development of nuclear weapons is a day of danger for the United States." -- Joe Lieberman, August, 2002

"Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. During 1991 - 1994, despite Iraq's denials, U.N. inspectors discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear facilities that Iraq was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various reports indicate that Iraq is still actively pursuing nuclear weapons capability. There is no reason to think otherwise. Beyond nuclear weapons, Iraq has actively pursued biological and chemical weapons.U.N. inspectors have said that Iraq's claims about biological weapons is neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish population. While weapons inspections have been successful in the past, there have been no inspections since the end of 1998. There can be no doubt that Iraq has continued to pursue its goal of obtaining weapons of mass destruction." -- Patty Murray, October 9, 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources -- something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Saddam�s existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq�s enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration�s policy towards Iraq, I don�t think there can be any question about Saddam�s conduct. He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are simply the facts." -- Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002

http://www.rightwingnews.com/quotes/demsonwmds.php


  

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ablibWed Mar-14-07 07:58 PM
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#1. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to pako (Reply # 0)
Wed Mar-14-07 08:24 PM by ablib

  

          

Didn't we just have this arguement? There's no changing the thought process of the crazy liberals on this forum or in America


http://www.pcqanda.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=126074&mesg_id=126074&page=4

Visit the Basement

  

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pakoWed Mar-14-07 08:21 PM
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#2. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to ablib (Reply # 1)


          

Yea, guess you're right, what was I thinking. Their minds are set and will never change.
And thats good in one respect. I just can't determine which one.



  

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giseudaWed Mar-14-07 09:50 PM
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#3. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to pako (Reply # 2)


  

          

I believe the WMD's were shipped out of the country. They'll be found some day.

  

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pakoWed Mar-14-07 11:02 PM
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#6. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to giseuda (Reply # 3)
Wed Mar-14-07 11:41 PM by pako

          

Quote:
I believe the WMD's were shipped out of the country. They'll be found some day.



They will no doubt be found one day. Thats why the liberals are going insane. They know it too and are rightly afraid it's going bite them in the butt when it happens. Once again they'll all have to change their stories.


  

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npmclThu Mar-15-07 10:01 AM
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#28. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to pako (Reply # 6)


  

          

Quote:
They will no doubt be found one day
No doubt you have fairies at the bottom of your garden but you just haven't found them yet.

  

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npmclThu Mar-15-07 09:55 AM
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#27. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to pako (Reply # 2)


  

          

Quote:
Their minds are set and will never change
Presumably you don't think that this applies to you.

  

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pakoTue Mar-20-07 01:14 AM
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#58. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 27)


          

Do you argue your points on what you think or what you think the majority of others are thinking.


  

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jazz4freeWed Mar-14-07 10:21 PM
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#4. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to ablib (Reply # 1)


  

          

Try "argument."

I, for one, promise to work on my crazy thought process; but, for the moment, I'm still left wondering why all that political rhetoric you posted adds up to war?

Saddam was a narcissist prick and Nancy Pelosi was and probably is still, like most of us at times, a damned fool.

How in hell does that add up to war?

War, guys! War! You know, that goddamned f'n thing during which we turn perfectly functioning human beings into worm food! That last resort goddamned f'n thing we civilized folks resort to when all other reason fails! That goddamned f'n thing we fat-assed old bastards send our beautiful children off to die in or to be mutilated in! F'n, goddamned, f'n war!

The next time you morons feel a knee jerk reaction coming on, take a pill. I'd recommend thought but you stupid bastards seem taxed beyond anything but deciding which hand to use to wipe your collective ass.

This is bringing on an horrendous headache.

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because
they have to say something."
-Plato

But, hey, Pako, welcome back. Out on a day pass? Remember the meds, bro -- two in the morning, one at bedtime. Makes things go real smooth.

Idiots...

  

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ablibWed Mar-14-07 10:59 PM
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#5. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 4)


  

          

You personify what I said in my 1st post. LOL keep em coming drunkie.

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeWed Mar-14-07 11:05 PM
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#7. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to ablib (Reply # 5)


  

          

Idiot.

  

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ablibWed Mar-14-07 11:39 PM
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#8. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 7)


  

          

canadian

Visit the Basement

  

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Dave101Wed Mar-14-07 11:53 PM
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#9. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to ablib (Reply # 8)


  

          

Here we go again
All my toys are broken

(Alice Cooper)

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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bobwWed Mar-14-07 11:58 PM
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#10. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to ablib (Reply # 8)


  

          

>canadian

Yeah that is what he says " however sometimes I wonder ??? Don't guess I should go there though . Like the WMDs ,the truth will someday be known.

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jazz4freeThu Mar-15-07 01:02 AM
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#15. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to bobw (Reply # 10)


  

          

You doubt I'm Canadian perhaps because I seem to know more about the politics of your country than you.

That's your problem, Bob, not mine.

  

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bobwThu Mar-15-07 12:02 PM
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#31. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 15)


  

          

>You doubt I'm Canadian perhaps because I seem to know more
>about the politics of your country than you.
>
>That's your problem, Bob, not mine.

If indeed it is a problem " I can get over it, however in your case ,I don't think so. Knowing about the politics of my Country is not a problem with me, as it seems to be with you.And it is in my opinion that you have far greater problems than being concerned about what is taking place in this Country.It appears now with the absence of Ed Greene ,you deem it necessary to perform your rants and his to.Which you are entitled to.

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jazz4freeThu Mar-15-07 12:48 PM
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#32. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to bobw (Reply # 31)


  

          

Maybe I am Ed Greene. Sleep well.

  

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DuaneThu Mar-15-07 03:53 PM
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#33. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 32)


          

>Maybe I am Ed Greene.

It would be a relief to know that there is actually only one of the two.

  

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jazz4freeThu Mar-15-07 04:52 PM
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#34. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to Duane (Reply # 33)


  

          

I suspect the real article is no longer among us. And if I believed in God -- BTW, a word Ed refused to spell out -- I would wish him a "God bless." He was a windy, misogynist old bastard with the hide of a rhino, but he knew lots of good stuff.

There are a lot of old farts and fartesses here, and some us have adopted the unfortunate habit of not waking up in the morning.

  

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Paul DThu Mar-15-07 12:20 AM
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#12. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to ablib (Reply # 8)


  

          


That's a compliment.



Paul D

  

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jazz4freeThu Mar-15-07 12:55 AM
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#13. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to ablib (Reply # 8)


  

          

We could stay in this virtual schoolyard and exchange infantile insults ad infinitum.

I'll say only this: There is no intellectual strength to the borrowed thoughts you and your like submit here.

You, and they, are uninformed of the basic. You have built the foundation of your knowledge in convenient rubble. You feel at home and comfortable within the confines of narrow conviction and have replaced consideration with ideology.

Your obdurate ignorance is more to be feared than reviled.

You are your own worst enemy.

And I'm not slumming. I claim only a high school education and I am a self-taught musician who worked hard and long at his craft to earn a living.

But I read books and listened.

I have a problem with drink, you have one with compassion.

  

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ablibThu Mar-15-07 01:00 AM
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#14. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 13)


  

          

idiot

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeThu Mar-15-07 01:18 AM
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#17. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to ablib (Reply # 14)


  

          

You wish.

  

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giseudaThu Mar-15-07 12:03 AM
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#11. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 4)


  

          

That rant gave me a headache too!

  

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jazz4freeThu Mar-15-07 01:04 AM
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#16. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to giseuda (Reply # 11)
Thu Mar-15-07 01:10 AM by jazz4free

  

          

Are you still here? Didn't you promise to go away?

Seriously, you are possibly the crudest adolescent mind I have ever stumbled across.

  

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giseudaThu Mar-15-07 02:53 AM
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#20. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 16)
Thu Mar-15-07 03:31 AM by giseuda

  

          

No James...Like you, I changed my mind. I just haven't caught up with as many changes as you've made.

You know, I believe if men/women of our age could sit down at a table with a pot of coffee and conversation, this biccering and in-fighting would stop.

  

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ablibThu Mar-15-07 03:32 AM
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#21. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to giseuda (Reply # 20)


  

          

With james coffee wouldn't cut it, he'd need a 5th.

Visit the Basement

  

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giseudaThu Mar-15-07 03:56 AM
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#22. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to ablib (Reply # 21)


  

          

I was just trying to cut the heat down a notch. Not my job and I'm sure Shelly will be reminding me. Good night, I have to take my son to school in the morning.

  

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pakoThu Mar-15-07 01:45 AM
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#18. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 4)


          

Quote:
How in hell does that add up to war?


They were all for it, and gave the President their approval.



  

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Dave101Thu Mar-15-07 02:16 AM
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#19. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to pako (Reply # 18)


  

          

Ah back on topic. I agree & agree also that the WMD were moved outta of the country.

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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ablibThu Mar-15-07 04:09 AM
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#23. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to pako (Reply # 18)


  

          

But those poor Democrats were going on the concocted intelligence that Bush was feeding everyone so he could get everyones approval for the war.

Even though this intelligence existed during the Clinton era. Before Bush.

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeThu Mar-15-07 09:37 AM
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#26. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to ablib (Reply # 23)


  

          

I'm surprised -- I should think you would choke on the word "intelligence."

  

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Dave101Thu Mar-15-07 04:41 AM
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#24. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 4)


  

          

Well I read,re-read,re-read & now convinced this isn't the James I know on the forum. You completly screwed the hole topic up! Took a shot a Packo for no reason other then he doesn't agree along your line. (BTW I don't agree along your line either).

You gotta remember drink or not that this is a family oriented forum & kids,teenagers,middle age,us & the elderly read this forum & that language sure doesn't show a good example!!!

I'm no better then anyone else James but common bud if you don't like the thread starter stay out. I was probably worse then any of you
when I first started posting in hunting/fishing/computing forums & I learned that this type of posting wasn't the real me, hence my sig.

I hope I didn't offend anyone!!!

BTW I like President Bush.

Dave Laf

Dave101

"The only goddamn thing you know about the law is how to break it." Chief Lafleche

  

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jazz4freeThu Mar-15-07 09:06 AM
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#25. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to Dave101 (Reply # 24)
Thu Mar-15-07 09:15 AM by jazz4free

  

          

To any I offended with my choice of words, I apologize.

I'm usually able to control my temper, but I'm just so damned sick of those who scour the dregs in a search for arguments which attempt to spread blame for the obscene thing that is Iraq.

The war in Iraq was and is a neocon invention, and responsibility for its metastasizing cancer lies at the doorstep of the self-described decider. Others had opinions of the moment, and no matter how badly informed, politically motivated or provocative those opinions may have been, none that I read here proposed the radical surgery of war, invasion and occupation of an inscrutable, fractious and hostile land.

And my shot at Pako was not gratuitous -- it was well considered. He is either insane or pretending to be so. To borrow from Steven King: He is an itch in the brain.




  

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npmclThu Mar-15-07 10:12 AM
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#29. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 25)


  

          

James, you may find this interesting http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2021269,00.html of course it's from a British point of view.

  

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jazz4freeThu Mar-15-07 11:36 AM
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#30. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 29)


  

          

Thanks, love.

  

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pakoThu Mar-15-07 05:01 PM
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#35. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 29)


          

That was kind of you, I too was hoping it would console him a little.

Obviously it failed miserably. "#34"


  

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81 NewbeeSun Mar-18-07 04:46 AM
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#37. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to npmcl (Reply # 29)


  

          

Hi Noreen,I am sure you know that The Guardian has as great a track record as our Times when it comes to Bush.I don't think that James really needed the article.He copes well.I have read the article before that Pako posted and agree that it shows the hipocracy of some of OUR politicians.
Opinions of the war on both sides are acceptable to me though I was in favor of the invasion for reasons I have previously stated . I am not happy with the progress to date but am hopeful things will improve.WAR IS THE SHITS but is the only "talk" that some dictators understand !
I do suggest that those of us on the forum try to be a little less personal .I am old and have a difficult time staying calm amid the bedlam.I am faint of heart and gentle of nature so I calmly say to all .If you can't stop getting personal SHUT UP

81 Newbee

  

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pakoSat Mar-17-07 10:52 PM
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#36. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 25)


          

Quote:
opinions may have been, none that I read here proposed the radical surgery of war,



Then you’re saying you didn’t read past the first paragraph.



  

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jazz4freeSun Mar-18-07 02:57 PM
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#39. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to pako (Reply # 36)


  

          

Although trudging through that disjointed compilation of deliberately prejudicial, taken-out-of-context statements was a complete waste of time, of course I did. And I stand by my comment.

Proposing the elimination of a few carefully selected targets with air and missile strikes falls far short of promoting massive military invasion, the overthrow and dismantling of a national government, and an enforced and prolonged occupation which was not and is not wanted by a majority of Iraqis themselves.

Bush and his neocon friends, and a motley crew of Iraqi removed-from-power-and-influence expatriates, wanted this particular war so badly that they lied and exaggerated their way into it, and now they own it -- lock, stock and barrel.

Yes, others sensed danger, but preferred, and urged, a more sensible and restrained way of addressing it.

  

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pakoSun Mar-18-07 03:41 PM
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#40. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 39)


          

Quote:
Proposing the elimination of a few carefully selected targets with air and missile strikes falls far short of promoting massive military invasion



Are you saying a few bombs and misseles would have altered Saddam’s evil intentions?



  

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ablibSun Mar-18-07 05:16 PM
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#41. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to pako (Reply # 40)


  

          

No they wouldn't because we already tried that. The truth is Saddam needed to be out. I don't see how we can just go in politely and take him out without some conflict.

Visit the Basement

  

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ShellyMon Mar-19-07 07:24 PM
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#53. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to ablib (Reply # 41)
Mon Mar-19-07 07:25 PM by Shelly

  

          

Some conflict? It seems to my memory that Saddam was out of power the day we entered Baghdad. Today we are entering the fifth year of this Iraq war! We should have turned Iraq back over to its people after the first week. Saddam would have been swinging from a rope the second week!

Shelly

  

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pakoMon Mar-19-07 07:42 PM
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#54. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 53)


          

Saddam and his pack were out of power only for the moment. Should we have left as you say, he would have been back in power in a week.


  

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giseudaMon Mar-19-07 07:48 PM
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#55. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to pako (Reply # 54)


  

          

My sentiments exactly. He and his sons high-tailed it. Only to come back and fight another day.

  

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bobwMon Mar-19-07 10:53 PM
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#57. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to giseuda (Reply # 55)


  

          

Me to " however on the other hand I do not believe that there will ever be any stability in that part of the World,those heathens have been fighting among them selves for 2500 or more years . Getting out will be like dying at your retirement party.A lot invested with no return .

Microsoft Windows XP Home
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ablibMon Mar-19-07 09:28 PM
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#56. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to Shelly (Reply # 53)
Mon Mar-19-07 09:29 PM by ablib

  

          

I agree.

Edit: I agree that we should of turned over power to Iraq ALOT sooner than 5 years. But not in the 1st week.

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeSun Mar-18-07 05:42 PM
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#42. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to pako (Reply # 40)


  

          

Evil intentions? He had been rendered a bombastic, toothless old delusional rat effectively locked in an international cage of air power and sanctions, and he was a threat only to his circle of cutthroat accomplices and the unfortunate Iraqi people who couldn't summon the collective will to throw off his Baathist yoke.

Then again, maybe you people are right, and he was ready to drop the big one from his little drone airplane on Manhattan.

Anyhow it's a moot point -- he was stopped. Thank goodness it didn't come at too high a price.

  

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JohnnyRebSun Mar-18-07 06:56 PM
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#43. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 42)
Sun Mar-18-07 06:57 PM by JohnnyReb

  

          

I would be careful about saying that the Iraqis did not have the collective will to overthrow Saddam. It is not that simple.

I am married to someone who spent most of her life in a communist country. I have been brutaly attacked (and educated) by her for espousing thoughts similar to yours. In a country where the ruler is willing to go to any means to keep power, you will NOT see people rising up. It happened in the Eastern bloc only after Gorbachev started showing a lack of will on the Soviet's part in keeping up the restrictions.

Repression in these countries is brutal. It is not simply a matter of rising up, when you know that your loved ones will be brutally put down as a result...

  

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jazz4freeSun Mar-18-07 07:29 PM
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#44. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to JohnnyReb (Reply # 43)


  

          

Without doubt, he was a well-practiced and deeply entrenched Stalinist. I didn't profess that it would have been easy -- I imagine it would have been quite the bloody opposite. But, still, there are some things, like stringing up your local brutal dictator, that are best done in house. That way you don't have a well-intentioned army of occupation baby sitting you for a generation or two.

Of course, his tribal-chieftain replacement would most probably have been just as evil, if not more so. Quite a pickle to be in, I must admit.

  

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ablibMon Mar-19-07 12:19 AM
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#45. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 44)


  

          

Well it was never going to be done in-house, so how else could it of been done?

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeMon Mar-19-07 12:43 AM
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#46. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to ablib (Reply # 45)


  

          

Quote:
Well it was never going to be done in-house...


You seem so certain of that, were you privy to some sort of inside information? Please share...

Quote:
...so how else could it of been done?


Your guess is as good as mine, but I'm sure there must be more subtle ways to kill a skunk than Shock and Awe.

  

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ablibMon Mar-19-07 12:52 AM
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#47. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 46)
Mon Mar-19-07 12:53 AM by ablib

  

          

OK fine dumbass it was highly unlikely that Saddam was going to be ousted by anyone in Iraq. Everyone knows it, you don't need inside information or to have the intelligence of Shelly to know that.

Quote:
Your guess is as good as mine, but I'm sure there must be more subtle ways to kill a skunk than Shock and Awe.


This is exactly the problem with the left wing elite. Love to criticize, blame, forget that they approved the war and recognized that Saddam was a threat 4 years ago, and STILL don't have a better plan.

Visit the Basement

  

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pakoMon Mar-19-07 02:05 AM
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#48. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to ablib (Reply # 47)


          



Wasting your time, he will have forgotten it before the cock crows twice.



  

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ablibMon Mar-19-07 02:34 AM
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#49. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to pako (Reply # 48)


  

          

I know, that's why I usually don't participate in these discussions. There's no changing the ill-minded.

Visit the Basement

  

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KJTMon Mar-19-07 03:06 AM
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#50. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to ablib (Reply # 49)


  

          

Quote:
There's no changing the ill-minded.

My gawd we finally agree on something.

But don't despair, it is unlikely we will ever agree on just who those "ill-minded" are.

Jim.

  

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ablibMon Mar-19-07 03:34 AM
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#51. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to KJT (Reply # 50)


  

          

Trust me I won't despair

Visit the Basement

  

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jazz4freeMon Mar-19-07 08:29 AM
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#52. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to ablib (Reply # 47)
Mon Mar-19-07 08:39 AM by jazz4free

  

          

Quote:
OK fine dumbass...


Thank you. From one of your discernment, I take that as a compliment.

And my sainted mother would have been chuffed to know her wayward son is now considered, no matter the source, to be among the "elite." You've made my day. Thanks again.

  

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81 NewbeeTue Mar-20-07 02:50 AM
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#59. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to jazz4free (Reply # 46)


  

          

James ,my friend,I am sure you recall that the Kurds did make an ill fated attempt to throw off Sadams yoke.He promptly launched a Weapons of Mass Destruction attack.(Poison Gas )Many many Kurds young and old died !To this day we wonder what he did with that WMD that we knew he had.I am disappointed that the US and its allies did not help in that effort.But who knows.The opposition would probably be moaning today if we had.Even if the results were success.The only good war is the one you win.The victor writes its history!

81 Newbee

  

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jazz4freeTue Mar-20-07 08:51 AM
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#60. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to 81 Newbee (Reply # 59)
Tue Mar-20-07 09:35 AM by jazz4free

  

          

Remember, John, "If you strike the king, you must kill him."

Hussein's retaliation against the Kurds was despicable and criminal, but America was wise then to exercise restraint and not "intervene." A separate nation state of Kurdistan carved out of what is now Northern Iraq, was and is perceived by its neighbors, Turkey and Iran, a threat to their own stability. That can of worms was and is, for the moment at least, best left unopened.

And, you know, I'm left wondering what ever happened to the good old-fashioned conservative thinking that espoused America should keep to its own business. It seems to have turned itself on its head. As far as foreign policy is concerned, you guys seem to have morphed into a weird version of the Peace Corps with guns.

  

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WhodatSun Mar-18-07 10:24 AM
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#38. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to pako (Reply # 0)


          

As some one once said "what a web we weave when we first practice to decieve"

  

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BobGuyWed Mar-21-07 05:05 AM
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#61. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to pako (Reply # 0)


          

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

  

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nightlyreaderWed Mar-21-07 05:16 AM
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#62. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to BobGuy (Reply # 61)


          

Smilies in this case are in very poor taste.

Nightly Reader

  

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Paul DWed Mar-21-07 08:45 AM
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#63. "RE: Bush Lied"
In response to nightlyreader (Reply # 62)


  

          


I somehow doubt it's meant to be a smilie.



Paul D

  

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