You convinced me to keep XP, and I'm doing okay with it on the desktop. However, I decided to put it on the laptop, too, and I have a MAJOR problem:
I have an IBM Thinkpad X-20 laptop; this unit has NO floppy or CD ROM. All its backup files are on the HDD, so there is no software with it if you have to do a restore...this is done on bootup by using F11 to enter setup.
I have an external USB floppy and CD ROM drive. I put the XP CD in the CD ROM to run setup. Everything went fine until the system rebooted...and then it fails to continue as the system cannot detect the external CD ROM, and the only option is to F3 to quit setup.
How in the heck can this unit be upgraded??? Anyone have any ideas? :'(
J.W.
Dell Inspiron 64 bit Intel Core iS-4460 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz 8.00 GB RAM Windows 8.1
Do you know how to go into the CMOSS setup and set the boot device sequence?
If you do, set it for the CD to be the First boot device and the HD second. Once the upgrade is finnished I think it will prompt you to remove the CD, which will let the HD boot into XP.
When it is all done you can change the boot sequence back to the origional order.
Okay guys, try and follow me here: There IS no CD ROM. There IS no floppy. Period. Doesn't exist.
I have EXTERNAL USB devices, however each of those requires SOFTWARE. The software for the floppy is on a CD. The software for the CD is on a floppy. ...Beginning to see the dilemma?
There is no option in the BIOS for booting to anything other than the HDD because there IS no other device but the HDD.
Therefore, when setup runs, it normally looks for a CD ROM. Now when it's not finding one, the installation aborts.
I am in a loop here. Up the creek.
Anyone have an oar?....
J.W.
Dell Inspiron 64 bit Intel Core iS-4460 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz 8.00 GB RAM Windows 8.1
Well...I can indeed copy all the files onto the HDD, however, when setup reboots and detects no CD-ROM, the installation aborts at that point, the only option being to F3 to Exit.
J.W.
Dell Inspiron 64 bit Intel Core iS-4460 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz 8.00 GB RAM Windows 8.1
Ah, just remembered, a CD is a MUST requirement for XP. The first OS to do so. Are you using Iomega software to recognize your CD (ie. guest)? Will check for a workaround.
Sonny, no kidding?? I didn't realize that about XP! IBM should rethink its Thinkpad series because it puts someone in my predicament in quite a position.
No, I'm not using Iomega. The external CD is a Buslink. I also have a USB Iomega zip drive, but that won't help me here, either.
Since all this started, I went ahead and reformatted my HDD back to Win2K...and now I'm busy trying to email files to myself to get back the CD ROM and floppy...which means I have to mail drivers for the devices to get them going. Real pain.
All things considered here, I wouldn't recommend this laptop to anyone. It's very convenient in that it doesn't weigh anything (no floppy or CD...), but it's a real pain in the ass if something like this happens or if you have to reformat.
J.W.
Dell Inspiron 64 bit Intel Core iS-4460 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz 8.00 GB RAM Windows 8.1
A thought that might be worth persuing is to run the Check System Compatibilty from the XP CD to see if your type of CD connection is supported (non bios CD detect). There may be a solution or at least a warning that may help.
I use the Thinkpad 240, which is the model before the X20. For those of us who need the weight savings, the design is ideal. In my case, I keep a second partition with the Win2K files for restore if necessary, plus a Ghost Image on another harddrive (over the network). It is NOT IBM's fault that MS required a CD drive. As a matter of fact, that is one of the stupidest things I've heard of as a requirement. The computers I administer at work DO NOT have CD drives (only the servers), and I think that is a fairly normal corporate arrangement.
#10. "RE: Help me out, guys!" In response to Al (Reply # 9)
Al, I'm only complaining from a consumer's perspective. As usual, the consumer is in the middle: IBM won't help solve an issue they feel is Microsoft's fault, and Microsoft won't go out of its way to support hardware.
That said, I agree with you that the laptop is VERY convenient in many respects, and I do have external USB floppy and CD ROM when I need to use them. However, in the case of this setup issue, I'm in a loop. If only there was some way to ADD things to the built-in HDD restore function...
J.W.
Dell Inspiron 64 bit Intel Core iS-4460 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz 8.00 GB RAM Windows 8.1
#12. "RE: Help me out, guys!" In response to JP (Reply # 11)
Thanks, but that doesn't look like it pertains; they talk about inserting a CD, and again, once the install starts there IS no CD support for the external USB CD ROM drive.
I put the system back on Win2K and it's happy, but I'm not.
J.W.
Dell Inspiron 64 bit Intel Core iS-4460 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz 8.00 GB RAM Windows 8.1
How the hell did they expect you to put stuff on the HDD???Do you have to type it in as DATA statements, page after page of data to compile??? That can't be real......
Well, that's a good question, I guess they figured you DON'T put anything else on the HDD unless you buy external devices, which I did. Buying USB floppy and CD was a good thing as I figured I could always use them on my desktops should a disaster occur to the hardware on those machines.
What I DIDN'T figure on was the extreme difficulty of getting the devices up and running initially since the CD drivers were on a floppy and the floppy drivers were on a CD!!!
J.W.
Dell Inspiron 64 bit Intel Core iS-4460 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz 8.00 GB RAM Windows 8.1
Hey Sonny, are you 100% sure that's a requirement? I always install from i386 dir copied to a hard disk (less chance of a screw up, and also faster... I do that with all OSes where practical) but there's always been a CDROM'ish drive connected with XP. If I ever get a chance, I'll disconnect one before doing the install to see for myself, but that won't likely be for a while.
That wouldn't be smart for more than one reason (what Al said and...) It would just make it more difficult to troubleshoot a problematic installation, and generally make it more difficult for people to install their product, unnecessarily restricting a viable option. Hasn't anyone here ever had to disconnect a CDROM drive for a Windows installation (win9x I've seen, can't say I've ever had to do that for an NT'ish installation) then connect it later? Or just simply try that in a process of elimination to nail down a problem?
If you know this to be factually true (perhaps only applicable to the home version?), confirm again so I can finish cursing. The arrogance. The outrage. The insolence
There's no sound comming from my speakers but somehow my ears are hurting. During pre release testing, this was an oft heard complaint to Microsoft. I just did a search of my documentation during that period but all Microsoft links are dead. It was stated then that a CD is and would be a requirement. Many E-Mails were shot off at that time by testers and Microsoft reiterated that a CD was required. I never persued it myself as it seemed to me that they made their case. My Question at the time was "How about Networks where the OS is cloned over the Network?". I never revieved a satisfactory answer. It just seems to me that Microsoft's idea of a Networked PC would have a CD as a minimum requirement. The reply I gave to jenna was based on my experiences during that time, although it took me while to recollect that fact.
I did some further exploration and came up with the following.
Sonny, this is really frustrating! I followed your link and there it lists this exact model, the X20, as being an "XP Ready" machine! I wonder how in the tarnation it's "XP Ready" if it doesn't have a CD ROM and XP requires it! Grrrr....
I'm going to bed.
J.W.
Dell Inspiron 64 bit Intel Core iS-4460 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz 8.00 GB RAM Windows 8.1
Well my ears aren't hurtin. I have installed Windows from both resident disk and network as you, however it has to get to resident disk without a network by some method. Peronally, I am not so sure I would want a networked PC having a CD other than for maintenance purposes, although an IT staff can always restrict it's usage. On further recollection, I seem to recall this being the outcome of an Intel and Microsft collaboration (Wintel) to eventually replace the floppy with the CD as the primary input device. I guess in few more years, the CD will be replaced by the DVD as a minimum requirement.
For sure, you can install Windows XP HE in a computer without a CD, I have done it in two of our computers used in the costumer Area where the drone marketing guys from some other companies stay waiting for finished products or stay overnight to iron out some details (So nobody can hack the Domain, copy or install something) . Those were both Compaq Deskpro computers, they have never had a CD or a floppy and we bought two retail full version of Windows XP HE, they had before Windows 98 and I transferred the files from my computer to their hard drive through the network, I erased later everything but the installation folders and made a clean install. I can only think on maybe the upgrade version needing a CD to check for the valid upgrade CD. This is the Device manager of one of those computers.
#33. "RE: Help me out, guys!" In response to Al (Reply # 24)
I did nothing special and I didn't get any message or anything else. The installation went normal, I suppose that they require a CD because the regular product comes in a CD, but for sure you can install it without it, just to prove it again I install it in another of my old machines (A P 400 I have for testing) The machine has a CD but I used it just to move the installation files to the hard drive, then I remove all cables from the drive and erase every other file but the installation folder. I have seen in some places Windows XP installed in Net PCs, and those do not have floppy or CD either.
#35. "RE: Help me out, guys!" In response to Al (Reply # 34)
Al,
Two possible solutions I have read here.
1 - Roni's Full version and not upgrade requireing CD for verification. 2 - Jenna's /makelocalsource switch with winnt32.exe install.
Both solutions need to be tested. #2 would be ideal for network installation because a script could be written to also provide the Product key, date, etc. for non user intervention during install.
Well, they have just guaranteed that we will NOT be running XP on any of our work machines. They DON'T have CD drives, and WILL NOT be getting them. Every once in a while I think MS might actually be "getting it" and then something like this shows up...
Also just ensured that my Thinkpad won't be getting XP...
Guess that leaves the two Compaq notebooks to maybe get it...
#29. "RE: Help me out, guys!" In response to Al (Reply # 23)
AHA!!!!!! Can this be the answer??!!!! I hauled out and bought a book, Windows XP Inside and Out. In the book are "controlling setup with switches" instructing to start the setup program from winnt32.exe. There were a whole bunch of switches to add, among them:
/makelocalsource "Instructs Setup to copy installation source files to your local hard disk; use this option if the CD will be unavailable during installation."
I don't have anything to lose by trying this. Unfortunately, I'm leaving here in about 15 minutes and will be away until January 2, so won't be able to try it until then. However, it would appear to alleviate the problem.
Hopefully Al might have a take on this as he was concerned about this, too. There were also a whole bunch of other interesting switches to use with that command.
J.W.
Dell Inspiron 64 bit Intel Core iS-4460 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz 8.00 GB RAM Windows 8.1
#32. "RE: Help me out, guys!" In response to Al (Reply # 31) Mon Dec-31-01 11:24 PM
This is pissing me off so much, I tried it. I disconnected everything except the floppy drive and one hard disk.
I made the 6 (yes, 6!) windows xp professional setup disks using the downloaded .exe. Windows XP would not install without a CDROM drive present. (as soon as you hit enter to start winxp setup and it inspects hardware, it aborts because it doesn't detect a CDROM drive)
Ok, sys c: from a win98 startup disk, made a config.sys and copied himem.sys and smartdrv.exe then rebooted, loaded smartdrv and ran \i386\winnt.exe and got XP to go on there.
So it can be done from DOS at least.
P.S. Because that worked, I would expect it will also work with winnt32 /makelocalsource because that's exactly what winnt.exe does first. Copies files, reboots, then the setup file copy phase occurs (seemingly redundant but...)
OK, here I am, 50 miles from home until tomorrow afternoon. I'd LOVE to get this laptop on XP, but I need help here. I've never installed any other way than from a CD before, so I need some step-by-step to do this.
I ran the restore and the laptop is back on Win2k. I'm pretty sure I can get the external CD going again. WHAT do I need to copy and to where??? Then do I run the winnt32 /makelocalsource switch from the Run line???
Talk me through this! We can't let Microsoft win!!
J.W.
Dell Inspiron 64 bit Intel Core iS-4460 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz 8.00 GB RAM Windows 8.1
Sonny, does it matter where the folder is located??? Can I just put it in the root of C or does it have to go someplace else?
Also, do I initiate the command from the Run line or do I have to boot up into safe mode or what??
The name of the book is Microsoft Windows XP Inside Out by Ed Bott and Carl Siechert, ISBN 0-7356-1382-6. You can find a review on Amazon.com at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735613826/qid%3D1009828315/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F0%5F1/102-3714838-0720145. It's a pretty decent book, really, very well laid out and has a CD with stuff I haven't had a chance to even look at yet. There were many books on XP, but this one has a lot of off-the-path stuff that appealed to me. Especially since my problems always seem to be off the path!
J.W.
Dell Inspiron 64 bit Intel Core iS-4460 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz 8.00 GB RAM Windows 8.1
#43. "RE: Help me out, guys!" In response to Jenna (Reply # 40) Tue Jan-01-02 01:05 AM
Folder can be in the root drive, it doesn't matter, just easier navigating there. Yes from the Run. I gave you the Windows command. It should be winnt.exe /makelocalsource.
Thank's for the book info. Gonna get it. Been looking for a good one.
Hey, you mean winnt32.exe /makelocalsource because with winnt.exe that switch would neither be recognized nor needed
Btw, all that needs to really be copied to the hard disk is the i386 directory from the XP CD. In fact if you copy the entire tree to a directory on the hard disk (wouldn't hurt), you'll have to run \wherever\i386\winnt32 /makelocalsource because that's where the executable lives. There is only the setup.exe program in the root directory of the windows XP CD.
> >Folder can be in the root drive, it doesn't matter, just >easier navigating there. Yes from the Run. I gave you the >Windows command. It should be winnt.exe /makelocalsource. > >Thank's for the book info. Gonna get it. Been looking for a >good one. > > >
Yes, I caught that. It seems we are having a post tag conversation going here with Jenna, Me, Ronni, and you. Somehow I think we might be able to defeat Mr Bill on this (maybe it's simple and not documented too well).
I don't know if you have tried this, but I did and it worked also, I copied the installation files to the hard drive, I unplug the CD and restarted in Windows 2000, I ran Windows XP Setup and install without any problem.
I did not have any problem because I made my installations using Winnt.exe, and I did not try the bootable floppies for the Home Edition (Probably you missed as I did this in Obtaining Windows XP Setup Boot Disks (Q310994)
" Note that you will need to use the Windows XP CD-ROM to finish Setup.")
The bootable floppies are for mobos without bios support for booting from CD. A CD drive is still required using the diskettes unless you can redirect winnt.exe to disk.
That's what I understood after reading (Q310994)for the second time, but as I said in a post above I tried also running Setup.exe from the installation files copied to the hard drive from Windows 2000 and the installation went without any problem and there was no CD in the computer (I had to make a new installation and not an upgrade as there is no path to upgrade from Windows 2000 server that was on that computer)
I know, but the only thing the makelocalsource do is to copy the installation files to the hard drive, and I'm confused with posts 4 and 5, where she said, that didn't work. It did work for me and I'm even thinking that she copied the files to the hard drive but ran the Setup from the CD, something that is a NO, NO.
makelocalsource "Instructs Setup to copy installation source files to your local hard disk; use this option if the CD will be unavailable during installation."
Ah, I didn't read it quite right. Since I don't have the documentation in front of me, I was going by Jenna's post. This would save a step by having winnt32.exe /makelocalsource copy the files to disk from CD during the install instead of pre install.
Thanks everybody! Like I said, I'm off my home base right now, but will definitely give this a "go" late tomorrow and post back with the results. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work...but if it DOES, cool!
J.W.
Dell Inspiron 64 bit Intel Core iS-4460 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz 8.00 GB RAM Windows 8.1
It WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I ran the winnt32.exe /makelocalsource switch (thanks Roni for the help), and it installed flawlessly!!!!! Will have to do a little driver tweaking here and there now, but it DID install without the CDROM!!!!!
Somebody tell Al and Grogan as I know they were concerned/irritated by this. I would heartily recommend that book; got some good info in it.
J.W.
Dell Inspiron 64 bit Intel Core iS-4460 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz 8.00 GB RAM Windows 8.1
You are welcome Jenna, I wrote that long email while drinking some secret concoction I reserve for holidays and I was later concerned if I had missed any step.
No problem, Roni: I was half smashed when I READ it, so it translated perfectly. LOL!
This install was slick. The only time I had to do anything was enter the product code, and it went on its own after that.
When it was done and I rebooted, it bluescreened. By the time I could grab some paper it restarted and I lost most of it, but I managed to get: TDSMAPI.SYS as being the cause of the bluescreen. I was writing down the stopcodes: 0X00000050 (0XFB24C...) when it restarted. It finished booting and gave another error about active desktop being hosed. I rebooted and let it run scandisk and then it booted without an error. I rebooted a couple more times and didn't get any errors. In the process of loading all my programs back on now, and so far no more bluescreens. Hope it was just a fluke!
J.W.
Dell Inspiron 64 bit Intel Core iS-4460 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz 8.00 GB RAM Windows 8.1
#55. "RE: Help me out, guys!" In response to Jenna (Reply # 51) Wed Jan-02-02 02:31 AM
You just told Al and Grogan. Congrats, glad you got it working.
As for your stop error, go to the manufacturer's web sites of all your hardware (where possible) and look for (or wait for) driver updates for Windows XP. Even seemingly insignificant things like your mouse, if you have a fancy one, or network adapter (which may themselves seem to be working perfectly).
It's a good idea to always keep checking for driver updates. Especially for tricky things like display adapters.
Umm, duh, brain fart. I forgot it was a laptop. So That'd be one vendor (IBM) you'll need to check for driver updates.
You may be fine anyway, Windows may have automatically adjusted something already (e.g. plug and play resources)
>Somebody tell Al and Grogan as I know they were >concerned/irritated by this. I would heartily recommend >that book; got some good info in it.
