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Subject: "W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administrator" Previous topic | Next topic
therubeTue Aug-10-10 04:49 AM
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"W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administrator"


  

          

W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administrator

"Standard User". Limited, like they had to change the name. Guess calling it "limited" left negative connotations. Well, maybe it should.


Let me see if I've got this right.

I have two user accounts.
RUBEN & XP.

RUBEN I have set a (& I'll use) Limited.
XP I have as Administrator.

Again, there must be at least one (enabled) Administrator account.


As a Limited user, I go to run a program, or I go to run particular parts of a program.
Program (or is it Windows) says:

"An attempt was made to access a socket in a way forbidden by its access permissions."


So what is one to do?
Exit Program, right-click icon, Run as Administrator.

Prompt pops up & wants my login for my Administrator account, XP.
I provide my password.
Program opens up, program runs as expected. No access permissions message.


All is well. Or is it?

Problem as I see it, & this is what I wish to verify & have a better understanding, is that I am not running in an Administrative capacity under my user, RUBEN, but I am doing so under the XP user.

I was thinking that I was elevating RUBEN from Limited to Admin for the context of the program that I selected to Run as Administrator, with XP playing into the equation only as with which to verify an Administrators login.

(Does UNIX su (super user) work that way or would newly created file shown owner as su? Can't recall from days of old).

But in actuality, when I Run as Administrator, I am running as XP? (That may be wrong.) So everything related to XP applies to the program I am running. (That may be correct.)

And in the same way, if I create files, who owns them? RUBEN or XP?
Appears that the files are owned by RUBEN.


So it is only the program being run that runs in the context of XP, & by virtue of that, the program settings set for XP?


If that is the case, that stinks!

--------------------------------------
BANK OF AMERICA.COM ONLINE BANKING SUCKS IN THE HUGEST WAY IMAGINABLE

Newegg.com's new image gallery layout sucks in the hugest way imaginable too !
And now they're using JavaScript to "turn" pages to boot ! SUCKS

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administra...
Aug 10th 2010
1
RE: W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administra...
Aug 10th 2010
2
RE: W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administra...
Aug 18th 2010
3
RE: W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administra...
Aug 18th 2010
4
      RE: W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administra...
Aug 18th 2010
5
           RE: W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administra...
Aug 18th 2010
6
RE: W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administra...
Oct 02nd 2010
7

CompPeteTue Aug-10-10 06:17 AM
Member since Apr 17th 2004
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#1. "RE: W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administrator"
In response to therube (Reply # 0)


  

          

That doesn't seem like normal behavior to me.
Try turning off Windows Defender, disable your antivirus, and firewall then try again with the limited account. Do you still get the error?

  

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therubeTue Aug-10-10 02:34 PM
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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#2. "RE: W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administrator"
In response to CompPete (Reply # 1)


  

          

> turn off Windows Defender, disable your antivirus, and firewall

Defender, long overdue, most likely.
A/V, none.
Firewall, hmmm. Can try that also.
(And I will be getting back to that firewall thread.)

Won't be able to test till this evening or so.


Wonder if this is only affecting one application in this way, my download manager, Net Transport. Thinking that is not the case though, that it is more general.

Aside from the fact that when I elevate, supply XP password, & end up actually using XP configured application (rather then RUBEN configuration of same), I do seem to run into actual limitations, like passing a Cookie from browser to download manager.


See this thread, in particular the last number of recent posts:

"Cannot Download from Youtube w/Net Transport"
http://forums.informaction.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4157


And while we're at it, different, but related:

"run as a service (UAC and user permissions)"
http://forum.voidtools.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=793

And:

"Cannot access synced/offline files"
http://forum.altap.cz/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4043

--------------------------------------
BANK OF AMERICA.COM ONLINE BANKING SUCKS IN THE HUGEST WAY IMAGINABLE

Newegg.com's new image gallery layout sucks in the hugest way imaginable too !
And now they're using JavaScript to "turn" pages to boot ! SUCKS

  

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therubeWed Aug-18-10 06:16 AM
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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#3. "RE: W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administrator"
In response to therube (Reply # 0)


  

          

> But in actuality, when I Run as Administrator, I am running as XP? (That may be wrong.)

No, that is correct. I am running as XP.
Task Manager will show User Name, XP.


> So everything related to XP applies to the program I am running. (That may be correct.)

Yes, that is correct.


> And in the same way, if I create files, who owns them? RUBEN or XP? >> Appears that the files are owned by RUBEN.

I think I'm wrong on that. Looks like the Owner is XP, though RUBEN is also listed as having the same permissions. That is the only mitigating factor that I see so far.

Even though the permissions may be the same, there may still be problems in that RUBEN may still not have needed permission without elevating. (See below.)


> So it is only the program being run that runs in the context of XP

Correct. (And child processes spawned from the program, I'd suspect. Like if you opened a DOS prompt.)


> & by virtue of that, the program settings set for XP?

Correct.



> If that is the case, that stinks!

This is the case. IT STINKS!

--------------------------------------
BANK OF AMERICA.COM ONLINE BANKING SUCKS IN THE HUGEST WAY IMAGINABLE

Newegg.com's new image gallery layout sucks in the hugest way imaginable too !
And now they're using JavaScript to "turn" pages to boot ! SUCKS

  

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therubeWed Aug-18-10 06:39 AM
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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#4. "RE: W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administrator"
In response to therube (Reply # 3)


  

          

My browser is, SeaMonkey (think like Firefox).

In my two logins, RUBEN & XP, I have separate browser Profiles (actually multiple in each, though no overlap between them.)

RUBEN has its set of Profiles, files, bookmarks, settings, extensions ...
XP has its own set of Profiles, files, bookmarks, settings, extensions ...

Given above, & without even trying, I kind of know that when I'm logged in as RUBEN, if I were to run my browser, elevated, as an Admin, that I would be prompted to elevate, & that it would elevate against XP, & it would in fact be running as XP. So here I, RUBEN, sit, running "my" browser, elevated, as XP, & I won't be using my Profiles, files, bookmarks, settings, extensions ..., instead I'll be using XP versions of the same. (That's a lot of parens in that proceeding "sentence".)

And I "know" this without even trying it out. I know that's whats going to happen.

AND THAT IS BRAIN DEAD.



I enable the hidden Administrator account, Administrator.

So I say to myself, self, since I enabled the Administrator account, & Administrator has no Profiles, files, bookmarks, settings, extensions ..., maybe <pause> maybe it will use RUBEN's versions.


Well guess what, Spoiler. Highlight to read: |IT IS BRAIN DEAD!|
Instead of doing that (which even if it doesn't really make sense, it is & would satisfy my needs, & would seem to work out), instead of doing that, it creates a new Profile, with none of my files, none of my bookmarks, none of my settings, none of my extensions ...



This is the eighteenth century we're in, not the dark ages. We're talking Windows 7. We're supposed to be safe & smart, & run as Limited users. And this is what MS come up with?

AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE. THIS IS BRAIN DEAD. Do tell me I'm wrong, that I'm just not seeing this correctly.

--------------------------------------
BANK OF AMERICA.COM ONLINE BANKING SUCKS IN THE HUGEST WAY IMAGINABLE

Newegg.com's new image gallery layout sucks in the hugest way imaginable too !
And now they're using JavaScript to "turn" pages to boot ! SUCKS

  

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therubeWed Aug-18-10 06:50 AM
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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#5. "RE: W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administrator"
In response to therube (Reply # 4)


  

          

So.

I now have this nice new Profile, that I, RUBEN, created, elevated against Administrator, created in the /Users/Administrator/ directory tree, with none of my ... yada yada yada.

And Administrator owns everything it has created. Though from looking (& I've never understood, & never will understand) <at> Windows permissions, it seems I am at the same permission level as Administrator for these files ...

Thinking that shouldn't be so bad?

So I go to open /Users/Administrator/ so that I can drill down to the newly created (empty & meaningless) files ... But I can't!? I'm not able to access /Users/Administrator/, even though I (as RUBEN) created them (though not that I wanted to), elevated, in the context of, & as, Administrator.

So.

So to even get to see that the files, yada yada yada, I need to elevate. And I elevate against Administrator & now I can get in & see my files, yada yada yada.

All fine & dandy? Not IMO.

--------------------------------------
BANK OF AMERICA.COM ONLINE BANKING SUCKS IN THE HUGEST WAY IMAGINABLE

Newegg.com's new image gallery layout sucks in the hugest way imaginable too !
And now they're using JavaScript to "turn" pages to boot ! SUCKS

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | | Top

            
therubeWed Aug-18-10 06:59 AM
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
16427 posts
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#6. "RE: W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administrator"
In response to therube (Reply # 5)


  

          

Now as I had to elevate to get to see "my" files ... it appears that once elevated, that elevation ... remains (?) for a period of time (?) till shutdown (?)

Not sure, but once the door is opened, it appears to remain opened, for some "session", though I don't know what that "session" is.


So.

So in my Networking thread (originally dealing with Vista/XP, but I have more access to W7/XP, so that's what I've mainly been using), I observed, what I thought, was me setting up sharing settings such that no logins would be required, but instead what I believe happened is that like elevating, I was in one of those "sessions", so further access were unhampered, unfettered with login requests ...

- I'm going to need to revisit that! ...

--------------------------------------
BANK OF AMERICA.COM ONLINE BANKING SUCKS IN THE HUGEST WAY IMAGINABLE

Newegg.com's new image gallery layout sucks in the hugest way imaginable too !
And now they're using JavaScript to "turn" pages to boot ! SUCKS

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | | Top

therubeSat Oct-02-10 12:45 PM
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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#7. "RE: W7: Lets Talk Standard User (Limited) vs Administrator"
In response to therube (Reply # 0)


  

          

(Sorry about that. Hadn't realized I had a mail message.)

Quote:

From: randybedore
Date: Aug 18th 2010

Hi, if you would be so kind to answer either privately or on the forum, you title your post beginning with W7, and even begin by noting the change of verbiage from XP to W7 re: limited rights user. But then you go on to discuss your experience with (what looks like to me) XP exclusively, not Win7. I don't get then why you have W7 in title? What am I missing? Thanks, Randy


Heh. I guess I can see where there would be some confusion. When I was running Windows XP, I had two User accounts set up. One named "RUBEN", & the other named "XP".

When I switched to W7, I retained those same user names. So even though I'm running W7, I still have User accounts named "RUBEN" & "XP".

My discussion above relates to W7.

--------------------------------------
BANK OF AMERICA.COM ONLINE BANKING SUCKS IN THE HUGEST WAY IMAGINABLE

Newegg.com's new image gallery layout sucks in the hugest way imaginable too !
And now they're using JavaScript to "turn" pages to boot ! SUCKS

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | | Top

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