Hello everyone. I haven't been here for quite a while, but I sure got a lot of help before when I was visiting regularly. Now I have a problem I can't seem to resolve, so I'm back...

I have two computers, one XP and the other ME. I had them networked through a hub and all was well until I changed ISP's (from Cable to ADSL), now the two computers can no longer find each other. All of the connections between the computers and the hub are the same as before. Both computers are able to access the 'net, so I know the connections are good, but I've re-made them all anyways. I've run the Network Wizard on both computers several times, but to no avail.

My thought is that it has something to do with IP addresses, but I either don't know or have forgotten how to check this (and change it if neccessary). Any ideas??

Paul

Welcome back, Paul.

Your ADSL setup may be using an integrated DHCP router unless your provider also included a separate router. This would change the IP addresses for each machine.

In my neighborhood, Hargray uses a PairGain modem coupled with a Linksys single-port router. A wireless multi-port can be substituted in PPOE configuration for Hargray's service. Note that your ISP may be different.

For best results, I suggest replacing the hub with a switch or a router/switch combination. If you're also thinking about wireless access, you can use a wireless router and configure it as a separate access point or substitute it for your current router if your ISP supplied one.

Are you using ZoneAlarm or another software firewall on both machines?

Tell us more about the ADSL modem and associated equipment supplied by your ISP.

Hub or router?

The provider only supplies the modem. I'm still using the same hub as before. I'm sure the IP addresses have changed, but shouldn't running the Network Wizard resolve that issue? All firewalls are off - I do have ZoneAlarm on the XP machine, but the firewall is turned off.

Paul

You are going to have to do some investigation to find the problem.

First, quit using the wizard. If you use it, you are relying on Microsoft to configure things, and it obviously isn't working.

Second, determine what the IP address is for each PC. On XP open a command prompt window and use the IPCONFIG command. On ME, use Start - Run - WINIPCFG. Both addresses should be in the same subnet, meaning that the first 3 octets of the addresses are the same, e.g. 192.168.1.xxx. If they aren't in the same subnet, this is the problem.

Third, see if each PC can PING the other. Open a command prompt window and type PING xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx, where the x's represent the IP address of the other PC. You should receive replies from both PCs PINGing the other.

Fourth, don't worry about whether you have a hub or a switch. Unless one PC is CONSTANTLY transferring data, it won't make any perceptible difference. When Ethernet switches were first introduced, the prices were very high. Hubs were used a lot, and switches were only used to reduce network traffic on large, busy networks.

Fifth, make sure that both PCs are still set for the same workgroup name.

Let us know your findings, and also tell us if you are using any other protocols.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

I checked the IP addresses and here is what I found: the IP addresses are totally different, the Subnet Masks are identical and the Default Gateways are totally different. I can ping both computers from the other, and both are in the same workgroup.

How do I change an IP address? and why can the computers ping each other, yet not communicate??

I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you ask if I am using any other protocols...

Paul

What are the two IP addres ranges for each computer?


"Assign Static IP Address"
http://www.hotcomm.com/FAQ/FAQ_staticIPXP.asp

Are your IP addresses static or dynamic(assigned automatically)?

Other protocols would be IPX or NetBEUI.

Be careful about changing IP addresses, you may lose internet connectivity. Make sure you write down any IP settings before you change them.

Also, is there any chance you are setup to do Internet Connection Sharing? This would mean that your DSL or cable modem is connected directly to one PC via USB or Ethernet, and there is an Ethernet connection from that PC, possibly through a hub, to the other PC. The first PC has ICS configured, and assigns an IP address to the second PC.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

I'd think it makes a lot of difference whether or not he's using a router. It handles the IP assignments to the PCs where, as i understand it, a hub or switch does not.

We already know that both PCs can connect to the internet. This is an important point that tells us whatever IP addresses he has, and however they are assigned, it is working. He has connectivity to the internet, and the PCs can PING each other.

He might get several benefits by using a router, but at this point everything is working except Microsoft File & Print Sharing.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

I don't know how to answer the question "What are the two IP address ranges for each computer?"

I also don't know how to find out if the IP addresses are static or dynamic, but they are different.

The XP computer is as follows:
IP Address 207.6.178.153
Subnet Mask 255.255.248.0
Default Gateway 207.6.176.254.

The ME computer is:
IP Address 64.180.116.19
Subnet Mask 255.255.248.0
Default Gateway 64.180.112.254

Regarding Internet Connection Sharing: the phone line goes into the modem, there is a cable from the modem to the hub and there are two cables from the hub, one to each computer. As mentioned, both computers can access the internet and both can successfully ping the other.

I just spent a few minutes on the phone with an aquaintance who is a network specialist. Before he was called away to attend to seasonal family matters he had me go to the command prompt and type IPCONFIG/RELEASE_ALL, followed by IPCONFIG/RENEW_ALL (on the ME computer)...nothing changed.

Thanks for all the input here.

Paul

Both of the default gateways are registered to Telus Communications, I assume this is your DSL provider. It is odd that you have 2 PCs connecting through the same DSL modem using addresses on different subnets.

To find out if your addresses are static or dynamic, do this:
On the XP machine click Start - Control Panel, then double click on Network Connections. Right click on your local area connection and choose Properties. Highlight TCP/IP and click the Properties button. See if it's set to obtain an IP address automatically, or use a specific address.

On Windows ME, the process is very similar. Click on Start - Settings - Control Panel, then double click on Network. Find the TCP/IP that is bound to your Ethernet controller and check the properties for it. See if it is set for static or dynamic addressing.

Also, do you know if you are paying extra to have a second computer connected to DSL? If you are, you should think about getting a router and cancelling the second IP address.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

Hi Ttech,

Both computers are set to obtain IP addresses automatically and
Telus Communications is my DSL service provider. I just checked the features of the package I signed up for when I switched from Cable to ADSL, and one of the included items is "two dynamic IP addresses".

Is my only option to go out and buy a router and cancel the second IP address? I understand that by doing that, the router then takes care of the assignment of IP addresses, but can I not somehow continue using the hub as before when I had a cable internet connection? Isn't there some way for me to tell each computer what the other's IP address is so they can share files as before?

An interesting point - I've contacted the Telus Helpline a few times with questions about email addresses and such, and each time have also mentioned this network issue. They just tell me they have nothing to do with it. It seems like it does have something to do with them...

Paul

>Both computers are set to obtain IP addresses automatically
>and
>Telus Communications is my DSL service provider. I just
>checked the features of the package I signed up for when I
>switched from Cable to ADSL, and one of the included items is
>"two dynamic IP addresses".

If they offer a package with only one IP address(and all other features the same), and it costs less than the package you have, I would buy a router and go with the cheaper package.

>Is my only option to go out and buy a router and cancel the
>second IP address?

Before you do anything else, try installing the IPX protocol on both PCs. This may fix your File and Print Sharing problems. Also, since you don't have a router, you really need to run a firewall on both PCs, otherwise you are a sitting duck. You should also have a very unique workgroup name to make it harder for anyone to see your files. Do not use workgroup names of WORKGROUP or MSHOME.

>I understand that by doing that, the router
>then takes care of the assignment of IP addresses, but can I
>not somehow continue using the hub as before when I had a
>cable internet connection?

If you use a router, it will assign IP addresses to your 2 PCs, and the addresses will be on the same subnet. The router will still receive a dynamic address for itself from Telus. Because both PCs will have addresses on the same subnet, it should take care of your File and Print Sharing problem. Most any router you buy will have 4 ports for local connections. Since you only have 2 PCs, this makes using your hub unnecessary, the switch built into the router will take the place of your hub. If you ever needed to connect more than 4 PCs at once, you could daisy-chain your hub to provide more ports.

>Isn't there some way for me to tell
>each computer what the other's IP address is so they can share
>files as before?

If the PCs had static IP addresses, you could enter them into the LMHOSTS file along with the NetBIOS names for the PCs. Because you have dynamic addresses, this isn't an option. You have no easy way to tell when the leases for the IP addresses are up, and the addresses change.

>An interesting point - I've contacted the Telus Helpline a
>few times with questions about email addresses and such, and
>each time have also mentioned this network issue. They just
>tell me they have nothing to do with it. It seems like it does
>have something to do with them...

They only provide you with internet service and email. They are not in the business of networking your home PCs.

As I said before, try installing the IPX protocol on both PCs, it may fix your problem. Your best bet is to use a router, even if there is no cheaper rate plan with only one IP address. A router will provide you with a lot of security in the form of a natural firewall, it's not perfect, but it is much better than the direct connection to the internet that your PCs now have. I don't know what your budget is, or how much you paid for your hub, but a 4 port wired router can be found for a reasonable price. Many people are switching to wireless routers, you may be able to find a used wired router at a cheap price.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

I'm sorry to keep asking for clarification all the time, but...how do I go about "installing the IPX protocols"? I don't even know what they are or where to get them from, let alone how to install them.

I'm getting a router and will be replacing the hub, but I'll give the IPX thing a try first, just to see what happens.

Actually Telus also advertises "home networking solutions", but apparently only when you buy their wireless hardware, otherwise, they don't seem to know anything about it...

Paul

The NWLink IPX/SPX protocol is only for Novell Networking, which a home user wouldn't have on their system.

Looking at the IP configs for each system tells me that they are essentially on networks that are seperate from each other because they are using different gateways. Those gateways appear to be assigned by your ISP, and I'll bet that they have it configured to do that so that your LAN doesn't run through their servers. They want to sell you that additional hardware.

There are a couple of ways that you can go here. One is to put a second NIC into your WinXP system and then network the WinME sytem to it through that. The easier way would be to get a router, which would be connected to the modem. Each PC would then connect to the Internet and each other through the router.

While Novell used IPX exclusively a decade ago, it could also be used for Microsoft networking in workgroup or domain environments. These days both Novell and Microsoft use TCP/IP by default.

In this case, IPX may be a workaround for his networking problem. He has already stated that he will be getting a router.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

My initial thought when I saw the two different IP ranges, was that is why the computers won't network, though I wasn't sure about that?

Anyhow, if you're going to try IPX, you might as well also try NetBEUI.

Symphony: Computers Games That Use the IPX Protocol
http://www.proxim.com/support/all/symphonyhomerf/technotes/tn2001-08-18b.html

MS KB301041 How to install NetBEUI on Windows XP

Well, I connected the router (D-Link DFL-80 4-Port Ethernet VPN Firewall), followed the set up instructions on the "READ THIS FIRST" insert that came in the manual, and was eventually able to connect to the internet from the XP computer. However, I was never able to connect from the ME computer, and of course there was no file sharing either. The set-up instructions in the manual were slightly different, so I turned everything off, hit the reset button on the router and followed them to the letter. That time it took even longer to get to the same point.

During the router's set-up wizard there are three choices: Dynamic IP Address (for most Cable modem users), Static IP Address, and PPPoE (For most DSL users). Initially, I used the Dynamic IP Address choice, because that's what everyone has said. After not being able to get more than one computer connected, I tried the PPPoE choice and went through the set-up. This caused even more grief, and I was unable to connect anything to anywhere. In fact, now I keep getting a DIDI window popping up telling me I'm not connected, trying to dial...

Both computers were set to "obtain IP addresses automatically" during this adventure. The ME computer claims it "uses IPX/SPX Compatible Protocols, NetBEUI and TCP/IP". When I look for the same information on the XP computer, I find a list with "Client for MS Networks, File and Printer Sharing for MS Networks, QoS Packet Sharing and TCP/IP". I thought it was interesting to note that when I click on any of the first three selections, the Install and Uninstall buttons are available, but when I select TCP/IP, only the Install button is available. Clicking on that button gives me a choice of installing Client, Service or Protocol. I didn't discover this until after I got ticked off at the whole affair, removed the router and re-installed the hub. At least now I can get on the 'net at both computers...

I thought this was supposed to be easy with a router. I'm getting so fed up with the whole thing, I'm getting ready to rip out the ADSL set-up and go back to cable. I'm sure that won't be fun, since I signed up for a three year rate protection plan with Telus, and I believe there's a hefty cancellation fee if you back out of it.

Paul

Yikes! That's an expensive router(at least at CompuUSA) for home use. I would have suggested a DI-604 or a Linksys BEFSR41.

You need to set the router for dynamic IP address on the WAN port. Then you need to investigate why the ME machine won't get on the internet. See if it gets an IP address in the same range as the XP machine. I'm not sure about your model, but other D-Link routers assign addresses in the 192.168.0.x range.

Edit-
>The ME computer claims it "uses IPX/SPX Compatible Protocols, NetBEUI and TCP/IP".

Where does it "claim" this????

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

Ya know what? I just tried to find that information again on the ME computer, and couldn't. That list isn't on the XP computer either, but I had to see it somewhere because I copied it on a piece of paper to make sure the information I posted was correct. A mystery for now...

I had no idea of the value of the router, it was given to me by a customer of mine who builds computers and has several networked in his house. Apparently it was slowing down his downloads, so I assumed it wasn't a very good one.

I'm about to have another go at this - I've just gone through and set up both computers with a new workgroup name, made sure TCP/IP is installed, all firewalls are off, Zonealarm has been uninstalled on the XP machine (it wasn't installed on the other), file sharing is enabled...

Paul

I'm sure that ME and XP networking are different than Win98, but I just reinstalled Win98 on my computer and in doing so I had to reconfigure my home networking again. I have three computers on network.

This may not be of any help to you as my situation is much different from yours but maybe setting up the protocols are similar.

Here's what I did to set up my protocols.

I right clicked on Network Neighborhood and selected properties, highlighted my Networking Card and clicked on "Add" then double clicked on "Protocol". In the resulting window I clicked on Microsoft, which brought up several choices in the right pane. You may have to repeat this procedure for each protocol but I added protocols "IPX/SPX-compatible Protocol" - "NetBEUI" - "TCP/IP".

I did this about an hour ago so my memory of it is vague now but I think I had to reboot my computer afterwards.

These items now appeared in my configuration window with my network card name off to the right of them.

File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks should also be seen in the configuration window.

After installing these protocols I highlighted my network card in the configuration window and clicked on Properties, then on Bindings. Now all three of these protocols were there and the boxes checked beside them.

Again, none of this may be relevant to your situation and if not please ignore this. My equipment, OS and Internet connection (dialup -yawn) is archaic compared to yours. My network is attached via cable (Cat 5) and I'm going through a switch. Also, I assigned my own IP addresses and subnet.

I'm back, currently on XP - connected through the router with no problem so far. Now I'm going to ME and turn it back on, maybe it'll work...NO SUCH LUCK! Still no connection to the 'net, no file sharing, and the IP addresses and subnet masks are still completely different.

This is getting silly I'll be back to the hub soon so I can at least access the internet from both computers. I noticed on another thread there are some links to networking forums, so I'm going to check them out later.
Thanks,

Paul

On the ME machine, go to Control Panel and double-click on Network. In the Network Properties window look at the list of installed components. Note the name of your Ethernet network card. Scroll down the list until you find the instance of TCP/IP that points(is bound) to your network card. Click on this, then click the Properties button. Make sure that it is set to obtain an IP address automatically. Then in the same TCP/IP properties window, click on the Gateway tab. Make sure that there are NO gateway addresses listed, if there are, delete them. Then click on the DNS Configuration tab and make sure it is set to disable DNS. Click OK on all open windows and restart.

If you still can't get on the internet after a restart, click Start - Run. In the Run windows, type WINIPCFG and then click OK. In the IP Configuration window, look at the top field and make sure that it shows the name of your network card. If it shows PPP adapter, you need to click the down arrow button and select your network card from the list. If you are getting an IP address from the D-Link router, it should start with 192.168.0.xxx.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

I've checked everything you suggested and all seems OK with one exception: everywhere except in the winipcfg window, the ethernet adapter listed is a D-Link DE-528. I physically checked the hardware, and it is indeed a D-Link DE-528. When I re-installed it, I put it into a different PCI slot, just for fun. After re-booting, I had two listed in system properties, so I removed one.

Anyway, in the winipcfg window the ethernet adapters shown are: "Realtek RTL 8029 (AS)" and "PPP". The Realtek is the active adapter. I can't find any way to change that, the actual adapter is not listed and why would it show an adapter that doesn't even exist? I tried Release All/Renew All, but that just hung up the computer until an error showed up: "DHCP Server Unavailable: Renewing Adapter". After that the computer wouldn't even reboot until I hit the reset button.

And as usual, the IP address on the ME box is still not coming from the router...the XP IP is 192.168.1.2, so it is coming from the router.

Paul

Even though your card is a D-Link, and Network Properties shows a D-Link driver, WINIPCFG may show the actual chipset being used, which in this case is a Realtek. This is common on Win98/ME.

What was the IP address shown for the Realtek?

I'm starting to wonder if the NIC is flakey.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

XP Computer Network Wizard must be set up first.

For Networking Win 98/ME with XP, you can create a floppy disk as the last step in XP Network Wizard, then run the Network Setup from the floppy on the 98/ME Computer.

This is what I had to do when setting up XP and 98SE Computers on the same network. I have 3 Win XP, 1 Win 2K, & 2 Win 98SE Computers networked together, an XP and 98SE Wireless among them.

>XP Computer Network Wizard must be set up first.



It isn't necessary to run any wizard. He needs to do some troubleshooting rather than running a wizard that may cause further problems.

Right now we are just trying to get the ME computer to see the internet.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

In the US, I think it is typical for DSL to require PPPoE.
Not sure about CA - you'll want to check with your ISP on that.

He is now going through a router, and his XP machine connects to the internet just fine. Only his ME machine is having problems connecting to the internet. That is what we are trying to fix at the moment.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

Right.

Assuming that he needs PPPoE, then the router should be set up for that. And in #20 above, it looks like it was suggested setting the router as Dynamic (if I am reading it correctly).

I don't think ME natively supported PPPoE & without that, it would seem that the ME machine would not be able to connect to the Internet.

Look at #23. He has the router hooked up, and the PC running XP is getting on the internet just fine. This means that the router is configured correctly.

If he did need to configure PPPoE, it would be in the configuration of the router, NOT on any of the PCs!

Both PCs are connected to the router. The XP machine gets on the internet just fine, the ME machine doesn't. There is a problem with the ME machine, but it ISN'T that it needs PPPoE.

Still waiting to find out what IP address the ME machine has. That may give a clue as to what the problem is.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

What I was thinking was that perhaps PPPoE is being picked up from XP itself & not via the router? (And again if it is needed at all).


Maggie posted this & should be checked also.

"Make sure the router is the DHCP server."
http://www.pcqanda.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=2&topic_id=342703#342775

>What I was thinking was that perhaps PPPoE is being picked up
>from XP itself & not via the router? (And again if it is
>needed at all).

The only way that would be possible is if the XP machine was directly connected to the router, thus bypassing the router. In #5 he states that BOTH PCs were connecting to the internet at the same time through a hub connected to the modem. AFAIK, you cannot have more than one PPPoE connection through one modem at the same time. If your suggestion that PPPoE is needed were correct, then the info in #5 would indicate that the ME machine was configured correctly for this.

>Maggie posted this & should be checked also.
>
>"Make sure the router is the DHCP server."
>http://www.pcqanda.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=2&topic_id=342703#342775

lpaulcarter has already seen this thread, he has posted to it.

That thread is very similar to this one in a number of ways. It is still unresolved, and still waiting for feedback from the originator.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

In response to all the latest comments:

-the IP address for the Realtek is 169.254.153.104 (XP computer is 192.168.1.2)
-the NIC was working perfectly well before I switched to ADSL. I had both computers sharing files and connected to the 'net while I was on Cable. If I go back to the hub, I'll be able to connect to the 'net with both computers again, so it doesn't seem like there's a problem with the NIC
-I've gone through the Wizard several times, it's no help
-I tried setting everything up for PPPoE and lost all access to the internet from both computers

At this point I'm starting to think "to hell with it". The only reason I switched to ADSL in the first place was the speed issue. The Cable speed was not what it used to be, especially at peak times, so I had been thinking about signing up for "High Speed Extreme" at an additional $10 month. That's when I got a call from a Telus telemarketer. He told me that for about $10 less a month than I was paying for cable, I would get full-time high speed and a few other perks. I thought that sounded like a good thing, so I went ahead and switched. I immediately lost file and printer sharing and this appears to be because one of the "perks" was two dynamic IP addresses. I got a router to replace the hub so that the router would assign IP addresses, but that's not working either, and now the router seems to have slowed my connection speed down to what it was like with Cable (and I can only connect with one computer!)

Paul

Try swapping ports on the router. Put the cable from the ME machine into the port that the XP machine was connected to. Restart both PCs and see if they connect to the internet.

The 169.xxx.xxx.xxx address indicates that the ME machine didn't get a response from the DHCP server in the router.

You might also have a bad network cable, or a bad NIC.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

I've done that already - swapped ports, tried every other port - the XP works in all ports, the ME in none. I don't have another cable long enough to get to the other end of the house, but maybe tomorrow evening I'll move the ME machine into this room and try another cable.

If the NIC in the ME machine works on Cable for file sharing and internet access, or through the hub on ADSL for internet access, why would it not work with the router? The ME computer and it's NIC, by the way, came from my wife's workplace, where it was a working part of a company wide network.

Paul

I agree with you statements about the NIC, but the NIC is just as prone to failure as any other component in the PC. Hopefully you will get different results when you move the PC and bypass the existing cable.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

(I think this ought to get things back over to the left - for a while at least.)

"Spring cleaning" took down our network in our office. Took a while, but turned out to be a crimped (RJ45) wire. End at the switch was good, end at the NIC was good. In between, the wire was twisted & turned, & till it was straightened out (literally), not a whole lot was working.

Thanks for moving us back onto the screen! Tonight I'm going to bypass the suspect cable by moving the ME machine closer to the router, and if that doesn't work, I've got another NIC card in an unused third computer - I'll swap cards.

I'm starting to see some other weird things going on with the ME computer (lock-ups, screen saver freezes, occasional inability to restart) so I'm thinking of formatting it and going back to W98. I'm only using ME because the machine came loaded with it when I bought it from my wife's employer. It doesn't really seem to be much different than 98...

Here's a question - the guy who gave me the router was also tossing out a good Pentium III 600Mhz motherboard. He said it's fine, but he only uses P-IV's now so he didn't want it, and gave it to me. Originally I was only interested in the two 128M RAM chips on the board, but now I'm wondering if it's worth swapping motherboards in the ME computer. It currently has an Intel Celeron 700Mhz motherboard - what do you think? Is there a significant difference between an Intel Celeron and a Pentium III? Is it worth swapping?

Paul

Just a quick note: I had a few minutes between job sites, so I quickly removed the two cables from the router and plugged them into the hub. After rebooting both machines, I'm now writing this on the ME machine, which is connected to the web again!?!

Gotta run, but it seems to me that the NIC, the cables, the connectors and both computers must be all right...that leaves the ADSL as the primary culprit in my eyes.

When I get home later, I'll try the router again, with both computers side by side...or maybe I'll build a new computer with the P-III MB and load W98 again, or maybe I'll just rip out the ADSL modem and send the whole mess back to Telus...

Paul

I still think the problem is with the ME machine, just don't know what part.

A couple of things you might try...
-Go back to using the router, but put your hub between the router and the ME machine. This will require an extra cable to go between the router and the hub.

-Build the other machine, and try it with the router. It just makes no sense that the XP machine works with the router, but the ME machine doesn't.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

BRILLIANT!! I don't understand why, but running the ME box to the router via the hub works. Not only do both computers connect to the 'net, I can share files again! Strange...

The addresses are: XP: IP 192.168.1.2 / Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0
ME: IP 192.168.1.3 / Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0

It's too late to start messing around again right now, but I think I might do the format/Win98 thing on the ME machine in the next few days. Depending upon any feedback I get on the motherboard question, I might just build a new box and start all over. On the other hand...do I really want to go through this all over again if it doesn't work right away???

Paul

That would lead me to the NIC. Possibly the signal levels are better from the hub than they are from the router, so the NIC communicates properly when connected to the hub.

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

Remove the Hub & connect directly to the router & see if it breaks again.

I'll do that - try connecting directly to the router again, and also try the other NIC card - but I'm going to be really busy for the next few days, so it may be a bit before I post again. Thanks for all your efforts and input to get me this far.

Paul

I couldn't wait, so I plugged the ME computer's NIC straight into the router - no go, so I replaced the NIC with another one...now everything works. You were right Ttech, it was the NIC all along. Thanks. Now I have to apologise to Telus for all the nasty things I said...

Paul

I'm glad you found the problem. This was a long, hard thread that was going many different directions. It finally got on the right track!

Behind every good computer... is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.

It was a long hard journey for me, too. I think I'll leave things as they are for a while (at least until I forget how frustrating computers can be sometimes). Even so, I like messing about with them, and with a forum like this to turn to in times of need, it becomes kind of a community thing. Thanks again for your help!

Paul