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Subject: "New Vidcard Benchmarks..." Previous topic | Next topic
micksterWed Jan-30-02 05:59 PM
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"New Vidcard Benchmarks..."


          

I finally got the new Gainward GeForce3 Ti200(128Mb) card benchmarked and was pretty happy with the results...
3D Mark 2000 10,462
3D Mark 2001 7,643
How do those #'s stack up with your's?

  

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                                                        3DFX , Quantum3D and NVIDIA.... Long
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MykWed Jan-30-02 06:14 PM
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#1. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to mickster (Reply # 0)


  

          

I take it you are doing the default setting.

Windows 98 SE
ABIT KT7A-RAID
T-bird 900 (200FSB)
Crucial Memory 512mb 133mhz cl=2 (1x256MB, 2x128MB)
Santa Cruz
Radeon 7500 retail
Maxtor 30gb 7200rpm

2K default-6494
2K1 default-3260

--------------
History teaches us that history has taught us nothing.

  

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micksterWed Jan-30-02 06:32 PM
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#2. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Myk (Reply # 1)
Wed Jan-30-02 06:34 PM

          

Nope...it came out of the box already oc'ed and of course I didn't want to NOT use that wonderful oc'ing sw that Gainward so thoughtfully included. It's now set at 235 on the GPU and 450 for the memory clock. Out of the box was 200/420.
The clock speeds I ended up on were an arbitrary set...no real tweak 'till it won't go no further thing. You know me...i'll tweak it 'till it dies or starts glowing, so I've got work to do.

  

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MykWed Jan-30-02 08:24 PM
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#3. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to mickster (Reply # 2)


  

          

I meant 3dmark's default setting, not the card's. With 2K1 I get better scores with the buffer at triple than I do at double but to compare everyone needs to use the same settings.

Also, what is the rest of your system? That would help compare.

I bet what would really be good to compare is the 64MB textures in 2K.

--------------
History teaches us that history has taught us nothing.

  

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micksterWed Jan-30-02 08:29 PM
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#4. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Myk (Reply # 3)
Wed Jan-30-02 08:29 PM

          

OK...no tweaks or resets to the 3D Mark standards..
Athlon1800 XP/512Mb Crucial PC2100/Maxtor 40Gb/ATA133/7200
WinXP/Asus A7V266-E

  

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MykWed Jan-30-02 09:48 PM
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#5. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to mickster (Reply # 4)


  

          

Holy cow, everything is better on that compared to mine (other than the amount of system memory). I'd like to see what a retail 7500 would bench on that.

--------------
History teaches us that history has taught us nothing.

  

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anthonySWed Jan-30-02 09:52 PM
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#6. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Myk (Reply # 5)


          

Heres mine:

AthlonXP @ 1800Mhz
512Mb DDR @ 164Mhz
Abit KR7A-RAID
Visiontek GF3 Ti500 @ 260 core/580 memory



http://cyclingcaptured.com

  

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micksterWed Jan-30-02 09:56 PM
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#8. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to anthonyS (Reply # 6)


          

Anthony...how much is the CPU oc'ed(FSB i'd have to assume unless you did brain(CPU)surgery) on your sys. The Ti500 is oc'ed right?

  

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anthonySWed Jan-30-02 10:31 PM
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#10. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to mickster (Reply # 8)


          

Mickster, my CPU is an AthlonXP 1800+ (1.53Ghz) overclocked to 1.8Ghz running at a FSB of 164Mhz (164 x 11). No brain surgery was required, just unlocking the clock multiplier. The vid. card is oc'd to 265 core / 600 memory. The CPU is Vapochilled and the GPU is water-cooled. The benchmarks were with the 23.11's @ 1024x768@75hz. The 27.xx series of Detonator's suck, lowering my score some 400 points. (even the 27.20's are stable, but still suck).
Here is a picture of the rig exposed:



http://cyclingcaptured.com

  

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longoThu Jan-31-02 10:40 PM
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#22. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to anthonyS (Reply # 10)


          

Holy crap it looks like my car engine! Way cool.

  

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micksterWed Jan-30-02 09:54 PM
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#7. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Myk (Reply # 5)


          

I'd be lying if I didn't admit to lusting for one of the 8500's. Those suckers look pretty blessed amazing.

  

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scaramoucheWed Jan-30-02 10:13 PM
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#9. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to mickster (Reply # 7)


  

          

P4 1.7 GHZ
512 DDR RAM
PNY Geforce3 ti500 64 MB
WindowsXP

3DMark2001 @default: 7347 points with the 2310 drivers.

Guns don't kill people. Husbands who come home early kill people.

  

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micksterWed Jan-30-02 11:31 PM
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#11. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to scaramouche (Reply # 9)


          

Now that makes me feel better...My 1533 Mhz/GF3 Ti200 against your 1.7 Ghz/ GF3 Ti500 and getting about 300 more points.
anthony's WAY better score didn't even faze me for a second cause I know he's always tweaked to the ultimate(UBERTWEAKR would be a great nick for him).

  

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anthonySThu Jan-31-02 12:31 AM
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#12. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to mickster (Reply # 11)


          

Here's my 3dMark2000 score:



http://cyclingcaptured.com

  

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micksterThu Jan-31-02 12:43 AM
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#13. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to anthonyS (Reply # 12)


          

I am not worthy...I am not worthy!!!
One of these deacades...

  

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MykThu Jan-31-02 04:53 AM
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#14. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to mickster (Reply # 13)


  

          

I'm going to coat a motherboard, ect. in plastic and stick it in a fish tank. I show him what water cooling really is

--------------
History teaches us that history has taught us nothing.

  

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micksterThu Jan-31-02 05:05 AM
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#15. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Myk (Reply # 14)
Thu Jan-31-02 05:09 AM

          

There's an xcellent pic in the newest MaximumPC(Pg. 17) of an X-Box computer that you really need to see. It's in the shape of an X with one wall in plexi(or similar stuff) and water filling the interior. They'll be doing an article on it when they do a mod special next month, along with 4 other winners at a Dallas Case modders event.

  

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LilJoeThu Jan-31-02 05:42 AM
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#16. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Myk (Reply # 14)


  

          

Just seal the case and use Switch oil,it'll work.

LilJoe

  

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Mark099Thu Jan-31-02 06:57 AM
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#17. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to mickster (Reply # 0)


          

Here's mine...

Athlon XP 1800+
MSI K7T266 Pro-R
512MB Crucial PC2100
Radeon 8500 Retail (default speeds)
Windows XP

3DMark2001: 8174

http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?2567042

Mark099!



  

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anthonySThu Jan-31-02 07:10 AM
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#18. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Mark099 (Reply # 17)


          

Excellent score for default speeds. I wish I would have gotten a Radeon 8500. If I had, I'd have no problem getting over 10k. The Radeon 8500 outperforms the GF3 pretty easily in the upcoming game Unreal2 as well. The only thing I don't like about ATI is their driver support


http://cyclingcaptured.com

  

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Mark099Thu Jan-31-02 11:23 AM
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#19. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to anthonyS (Reply # 18)


          

Actually, I have pleasantly surprised with the quality of the ATi drivers to date.

Mark099!



  

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Backward BobThu Jan-31-02 11:19 PM
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#23. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to anthonyS (Reply # 18)


          

Anthony, if these guys ever get in a pissing contest with you, I am laying my money on you.

You are the only guy I know who would not be afraid to put a jet engine on a skate board.

Keep up the good work so I might someday follow.







  

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anthonySFri Feb-01-02 05:20 PM
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#28. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Backward Bob (Reply # 23)


          

Thanks Bob ATI really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. This company CHEATS with their drivers by degrading texture quality to make it look like it outperforms a GF3 in the Q3A benchmarks. Sure ATI says it was a simple mistake and they are sorry, but that's bullshit- they were caught red-handed cheating. And the OEM vs. retail clock speed scam is just that- a scam. Also, Nvidia has the most "pull" in the graphics industry. You'll see more support for Nvidia's API's vs. ATI's Trueform and Hydravision, even though ATI has the greater market share (in my opinion OEM graphic cards bundled with machines don't count). THe only reason why ATI cards are chosen by OEM's over Nvidia is because ATI is cheaper- you get what you pay for.

Also, ATI driver support DOES SUCK. Nvidia leaks new beta drivers every week it seems- I think thats fantastic. I'm more than willing to test new drivers as soon as I can get them. If they don't work right, so what- just roll back to a previous stable version. My laptop has an ATI Rage LT Pro. ATI doesn't support W2K, let alone WindowsXP for this graphics card. I have to use either the driver bundled with WindowsXP (which doesn't have an OGL API) or a driver that has been hacked by a third party that forces compatibility with W2K/XP. This is poor driver support in my book.


http://cyclingcaptured.com

  

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MykFri Feb-01-02 09:16 PM
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#29. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to anthonyS (Reply # 28)


  

          

I blame the Q3A deal on the reviewers. I already made a speech about it before so I'm not going to do it again.

You want to talk about sucking driver support? Try to find drivers for a V5. Guess who owns that technology.

Support the wannabe MS junior if you want, how good do you think they'll treat you if they ever get their way? I'm suspecting it will be about as good as they treated people that bought the new Voodoo chips a month before Nvidia bought the tech. If they want you to buy their new card they will drop all support for their old card.

As for leaked beta's being "support", if that's what you consider support, I got 9008 on 1-18, haven't had time to try them yet, I just checked and 9013 are leaked.

--------------
History teaches us that history has taught us nothing.

  

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anthonySFri Feb-01-02 09:31 PM
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#31. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Myk (Reply # 29)


          

The only thing ATI is good for is being Nvidia's only competition. This benefits everybody. These two companies trying to have the "one-up" on each other is bringing us some fantastic products. When NVidia buys ATI, you'll be the one stuck with the unsupported Radeon


http://cyclingcaptured.com

  

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MykFri Feb-01-02 09:39 PM
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#32. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to anthonyS (Reply # 31)


  

          

LOL

Yeah, but everyone with a Nvidia card made from before that buyout will also not get anymore support from Nvidia. "If you want support buy the new GF10."

--------------
History teaches us that history has taught us nothing.

  

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anthonySFri Feb-01-02 10:07 PM
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#33. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Myk (Reply # 32)


          

On the contrary. Take for example the Detonator drivers: these are unified drivers which support EVERY NVidia card from the days of the TNT2 all the way through GF2. The TNT2 is, if I can remember correctly, about what, 4 years old now? Here is a cut and paste from the driver.ini file:

NVidia = "NVIDIA"
NVidia.Nv5 = "NVIDIA RIVA TNT2/TNT2 Pro"
NVidia.NvVanta = "NVIDIA Vanta/Vanta LT"
NVidia.NvUltra = "NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 Ultra"
NVidia.Nv5M64 = "NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 Model 64/Model 64 Pro"
NVidia.Nv10 = "NVIDIA GeForce 256"
NVidia.Nv10DDR = "NVIDIA GeForce DDR"
NVidia.Nv10GL = "NVIDIA Quadro"
NVidia.Nv11 = "NVIDIA GeForce2 MX/MX 400"
NVidia.Nv11DDR = "NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 100/200"
NVidia.Nv11GL = "NVIDIA Quadro2 MXR/EX"
NVidia.Nv15 = "NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS/GeForce2 Pro"
NVidia.Nv15DDR = "NVIDIA GeForce2 Ti"
NVidia.Nv15BR = "NVIDIA GeForce2 Ultra"
NVidia.Nv15GL = "NVIDIA Quadro2 Pro"
NVidia.Nv20 = "NVIDIA GeForce3"
NVidia.Nv20.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce3 Ti 200"
NVidia.Nv20.2 = "NVIDIA GeForce3 Ti 500"
NVidia.Nv20DCC = "NVIDIA Quadro DCC"


http://cyclingcaptured.com

  

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MykFri Feb-01-02 11:13 PM
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#34. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to anthonyS (Reply # 33)


  

          

That's because of competition. Wait until they are the only name in town. Then it will be the Voodoo 5 all over again

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anthonySFri Feb-01-02 11:26 PM
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#35. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Myk (Reply # 34)


          

That my friend, I cannot deny. It's called big buisness


http://cyclingcaptured.com

  

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RoniSat Feb-02-02 03:12 AM
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#37. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Myk (Reply # 29)


  

          

You want to talk about sucking driver support? Try to find drivers for a V5. Guess who owns that technology.

Under the terms of the agreement Nvidia acquired some assets from 3DFX, but support for 3DFX cards was in the hands of what remained from 3DFX, even after NVIDIA acquired those assets 3DFX promised driver support, there were several press releases and interviews about it, difficult to find now, but you can read one of them here



  

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MykSat Feb-02-02 04:11 AM
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#38. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Roni (Reply # 37)


  

          

Page won't come up for me.

That goes against everything I've heard. What I heard was that Nvidia has all the power as to whether or not ANYONE releases any official drivers for the V5. 3dfx could put out drivers while they still were. Now that they are no longer Nvidia has the rights to them.

And that's not really my point anyway.
Point is, Nvidia bought the V5 tech. Nvidia has the ability to release official drivers for the V5, thus making many Voodoo owners very happy and loyal customers for the future. I would've been one and I didn't even have a V4/5/6.
Instead Nvidia decided to stop all driver support and possibly (I don't know for sure that it was Nvidia) fight any official 3rd party from supporting them.

If they are willing to do this to a company who's customers they wanted while there is still competition out there, what do you think they would do if they had no competition.

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RoniSat Feb-02-02 04:23 AM
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#39. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Myk (Reply # 38)


  

          

That's not what happened, NVIDIA acquired part of 3DFX assets, and didn't buy the company, even when you buy a company in bankrupcy you are not forced to support their old product line, unless that is part of the agreement.
This is the interview I link (I can go to that link from 3 different computers)

INTERVIEW: 3dfx's Scott Taylor:
Director of Corporate Marketing
12/18/2000
Company: 3dfx
Interview by Duane Pemberton

GD: What exactly does the recent nVIDIA buyout mean for 3dfx loyalists and customers?

Scott: We’ve sold certain specified assets to nVIDIA, however we’ve retained our board business. That said, 3dfx has recommended to our shareholders to dissolve the company.

GD: What are your plans for future driver support?

Scott: Our tech support team is fully staffed, and we plan to continue support unless the company is dissolved, if the shareholders elect for that option.



  

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MykSat Feb-02-02 05:14 AM
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#40. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Roni (Reply # 39)


  

          

What's not what happened? Nvidia didn't buy the tech for the V5?
That must be what you're saying didn't happen because that's the only thing that I said did happen, other than Nvidia not putting out drivers for the V5.

If Nvidia didn't buy the V5 tech just what did they buy? I'm sure this will be big news to everyone. As far as I know the V5 tech is all they bought.

"when you buy a company in bankrupcy you are not forced to support their old product line"

I have never said they were responsible or should be forced. I said it would be good customer relations to support the chips who's technology they DO own.

I can get to the link now. Other than saying that 3dfx was going to continue to put out drivers until they dissolved it says nothing. I think the world already knew that 3dfx put out drivers until they closed shop.

--------------
History teaches us that history has taught us nothing.

  

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RoniSat Feb-02-02 06:40 AM
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#41. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Myk (Reply # 40)
Sat Feb-02-02 07:17 AM

  

          

What's not what happened? Nvidia didn't buy the tech for the V5?
That must be what you're saying didn't happen because that's the only thing that I said did happen, other than Nvidia not putting out drivers for the V5.
If Nvidia didn't buy the V5 tech just what did they buy? I'm sure this will be big news to everyone. As far as I know the V5 tech is all they bought.

No Nvidia bought some intellectual property that is part of the V5, they did not buy all the intellectual property that is part of the V5, either because Nvidia have already a similar technology in their products or because they were not interested
What I said that did not happen is this "What I heard was that Nvidia has all the power as to whether or not ANYONE releases any official drivers for the V5" nobody can release an "official driver" but 3DFX anything else is not official, I'm sure that to make a good driver for the 3DFX card you need access to some of the intellectual property bought by Nvidia, for sure Nvidia is not going to give a 3rd party this technology after paying some millions for it, but nothing can stop anybody from releasing a driver

I have never said they were responsible or should be forced. I said it would be good customer relations to support the chips who's technology they DO own.

No this is what you said, "Instead Nvidia decided to stop all driver support and possibly (I don't know for sure that it was Nvidia) fight any official 3rd party from supporting them"

Nvidia never stop to support any driver because at any point they started How can you stop something that you have never started? How can you have an official 3rd party driver? The moment it is 3rd party it stops been official.

I can get to the link now. Other than saying that 3dfx was going to continue to put out drivers until they dissolved it says nothing. I think the world already knew that 3dfx put out drivers until they closed shop

It says more than enough for me, it clearly says that after the deal 3DFX was still responsible for releasing drivers, if the company was dissolved after that, how this change the terms of the deal? It also said clearly that they did not sell the production of 3DFX cards

We’ve sold certain specified assets to nVIDIA, however we’ve retained our board business

So after they sold some intellectual property to Nvidia they retained the board business (meaning they were still producing video cards) and selling them, why Nvidia has to support those cards? Out of the good of their hearts? Remember Nvidia is a business; support is expensive (We are talking millions of $$$)




  

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MykSat Feb-02-02 02:06 PM
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#43. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Roni (Reply # 41)


  

          

Why was x3dfx stopped? Who do you think stopped it? Why did their website after being stopped speak of legal matters? Why does it no longer speak of legal matters?

Why isn't anyone allowed to release official V5 drivers? Who is not allowing it to happen?

Why isn't Nvidia speaking about how they can't stop anyone from releasing the drivers or hacking the source code? It would seem to me that if they are not to blame it would only do their business good to tell people that they don't have the technology to write drivers for the chips they bought. That if they could find the correct person who worked for 3dfx and had the knowledge, the driver source code is free for the taking.

FACT: Nvidia owns the V5 chip.
FACT: Nvidia does not own the 3dfx made V5 boards.
FACT: Official REFERENCE drivers are release by chip owners for cards using the chips they own.
FACT: Nvidia could release reference drivers for the V5 if they chose to do so.
FACT: Nvidia chooses not to.
FACT: Nvidia could release the source code to a third party.
FACT: Nvidia chooses not to.
FACT: Third party means party other than party one or party two. Has nothing to do with official or not. Official means they have the code to write real drivers rather than hacking drivers that are already there.

"why Nvidia has to support those cards? Out of the good of their hearts?"

Yes, out of the goodness of their hearts and greed. It doesn't cost millions of dollars to write drivers. It does make millions of dollars to sell video boards to people who would be your loyal customers if you would support the cards they own based on technology that you own.

It's obvious that you have not kept yourself in tune with what has been going on with 3dfx (not capitalized and hasn't been for a long time) or it's ex-employees.

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History teaches us that history has taught us nothing.

  

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ChickenmanSat Feb-02-02 08:35 PM
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#44. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Myk (Reply # 43)


          

Actually Myk, I hate to say, it but you're wrong on one point. NVIDIA does NOT own the V5 chip, which is the VS100. 3DFX sold that technology to Quantum ( The high end professional video card MFG, not the HD mfg ). The VS100 chip now is the basis for their top of the line stuff. Available in 16 chip SLI if you've got the money ( The VS100 can go to 32 chip SLI if need be )

  

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RoniSat Feb-02-02 11:14 PM
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#45. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Chickenman (Reply # 44)
Sat Feb-02-02 11:47 PM

  

          

Why was x3dfx stopped? Who do you think stopped it? Why did their website after being stopped speak of legal matters? Why does it no longer speak of legal matters?
Why isn't anyone allowed to release official V5 drivers? Who is not allowing it to happen?

Do you have any evidence to backup your claims? No hearsay, real evidence, Do you have any evidence a link about Nvidia been behind somebody stopping you or any body from releasing a driver? I know people working on 3dfx drivers for Linux and nothing like that has happened, they do not have access to all the technology, some now owned by Nvidia and some owned by other companies (There patents in the 3dfx design that are properties of some other companies beside 3dfx or Nvidia, there are even Intel patents there)

Why isn't Nvidia speaking about how they can't stop anyone from releasing the drivers or hacking the source code? It would seem to me that if they are not to blame it would only do their business good to tell people that they don't have the technology to write drivers for the chips they bought. That if they could find the correct person who worked for 3dfx and had the knowledge, the driver source code is free for the taking.

And how Nvidia has anything to do with this? 3dfx cards were made by 3dfx, they are the only ones who can grant people the Rights to do this or the other, there is still a pool of patents nobody has acquired, there are some patents that are now Nvidia property and anybody trying to use them will have to get an agreement.
they bought some patents used in the design of the v5, THEY DID NOT BUY ALL LICENSES, THEY DID NOT BUY THAT CHIP they bought also the brand names 3dfx and Voodoo, under the terms of the deal Nvidia was not liable for driver support.

"FACT: Nvidia owns the V5 chip."

Nvidia owns some of the technology and the brand names.

FACT: Nvidia does not own the 3dfx made V5 boards.

TRUE and more, they have nothing to do with the production of V5 the same way General Motors owns a bunch of patents in cars made by Ford but if Ford goes out of business General Motors has nothing to do with the problems you would have with your Ford.

"FACT: Official REFERENCE drivers are release by chip owners for cards using the chips they own."

Only problem here is that Nvidia doesn't own that chip, and has absolutely nothing to do with its production before or after those patents were bought.

"FACT: Nvidia could release reference drivers for the V5 if they chose to do so."

This is not any FACT, to do that you have to own the Rights over the production of that chip and Nvidia doesn't have it, Nvidia only owns some patents used in the production of the V5, there are a lot of patents not owned by Nvidia you need the source code for those patents, you need to pay to have access to those patents. But I think that what is more important is that at the time of the deal it was specify that they were not liable for driver support.

"FACT: Nvidia chooses not to."

No it didn't, Nvidia has no Rights over all the technology.

FACT: Nvidia could release the source code to a third party.

Not true either, Nvidia could release the source code of the technology they bought, and they didn't bought all the patent pool, it would be stupid for Nvidia to spend millions buying this technology that I don't know if you realize is proprietary secret technology that you do not want the competition to have and then go and post the source code so somebody could release a driver, oh yeah it makes sense.

"FACT: Nvidia chooses not to."

Nvidia doesn't have the Rights over all the patent pool Nvidia bought some patents used in the design of the V5 Nvidia has no rights to tell who can or cannot produce anything over a chip that was made by some other company even if part of the technology is in their hands, the same way Nvidia cannot tell anybody to produce drivers for the Kyro or ATI cards even when those cards use some technology owned by Nvidia.

"FACT: Third party means party other than party one or party two. Has nothing to do with official or not. Official means they have the code to write real drivers rather than hacking drivers that are already there."

No, official means that you own all Rights over that technology Nvidia doesn't own all Rights over the production manufacturing or patent pool of the V5 or any 3dfx card for that matter Nvidia after 3dfx got into deep trouble went and bought some patents used in 3dfx chips under that agreement they were not liable for driver support.

"Yes, out of the goodness of their hearts and greed. It doesn't cost millions of dollars to write drivers. It does make millions of dollars to sell video boards to people who would be your loyal customers if you would support the cards they own based on technology that you own."

This is all no sense, Nvidia never sold any 3dfx card, they never got any money from cards sold by 3dfx, Nvidia doesn't owned the V5 or any 3DFX card, Nvidia just bought some technology used in the design of those cards

You think it doesn't cost millions to write drivers, let me guess you have never worked in anything related to support or writing software. To make a driver you need at least a team of 15 to 20 engineers and some other people to support them, some office space, some hardware, computers compilers, tools etc. you need specialist in every OS, Windows 9x, Windows NT/2000/XP, Mac computers. Any entry software engineer writing low level machine code will get a salary of more than $80,000 minimum, you will need some good ones also that maybe will make $150,000 or more start adding, and that's to support a card that they have never sold, never got a cent from them in an industry with razor thin profits margins



  

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MykSun Feb-03-02 09:36 AM
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#47. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Roni (Reply # 45)


  

          

"Do you have any evidence to backup your claims?"

Did you read my post above? "(I don't know for sure that it was Nvidia)" Then why ask? Have I picked up a troll? I'll have to check the bottoms of my shoes, maybe I have.

"This is all no sense, Nvidia never sold any 3dfx card,..."

Possibility #1, Nvidia has the ability to write drivers for some 3dfx cards. They write the drivers. This would make 3dfx customers happy, they in turn buy Nvidia products.

Possibility #2, Nvidia doesn't have the ability to write drivers for any 3dfx cards because they don't own the technology. Nvidia explains this to the owners of 3dfx cards and clears their name, which is getting drug through the dirt in 3dfx circles because the general impression is that Nvidia does own the technology to write drivers for some 3dfx cards.
This explains the situation to the 3dfx customers and they in turn no longer feel the need to boycott Nvidia products.

Let me guess, you've never been a math wiz. It doesn't take a year to write drivers, therefor the yearly salary of the employee writing the drivers has little bearing on the cost other than to divide it by the time it takes to write the drivers. 10 people averaging $100,000/yr, 1 month to complete the drivers equals $83,333.33. I doubt if it takes all 10 people at a $100,000 range. But let's give you the benefit of doubt and say that it's going to cost $250,000 after adding in the things that you said, which are all ready there. (Office space? Do you really think they rush out and buy new office space for each and every driver they make?. With business minds like that, it's no wonder the industry has razor thin profit margins.)
3dfx cards for Mac? I'm not into Macs but that's the first I've heard of that, I thought Macs were pretty much propriety. 3dfx drivers all worked good for 9x and NT/2000. That leaves only one OS, XP, to write for. I'd think cutting your OS needs down should let you do it with the 10 people.
Let's say you are right, it costs them $100,000,000 to write a driver. How many drivers are they putting out each and every month? That must mean they are making big bucks selling video cards to support that kind of overhead (at least $12,000,000 a year in drivers alone!).
To keep the math easy let's say that 3dfx held 33% of the market share. At least 50%, probably more, of those are boycotting Nvidia. About 25% of those are going to hold on to their 3dfx cards until they won't work anymore because they don't like Nvidia and don't trust ATI's drivers. Figure they've already got the other 25%. It would be easy to win over the 25% spooked about ATI's drivers by supporting them when you have no legal obligation to. You could get those 50% not to boycott you and probably buy from you in the future with a small driver release.
So for $1,000,000 you have almost doubled your market share from 33% to 66%. You were already paying out $12,000,000 to support 33%. And you think that spending 1/12 of that to double your business would be a bad move?

And that's only assuming they do have the tech to write the drivers. If they don't, all it would cost is a representative to make a press release and do some posts at a few message boards to say that Nvidia releasing drivers for 3dfx cards is an impossibility because they don't own the technology or the patents. That wouldn't double their market share but it would stop the boycotts and it wouldn't cost $1,000,000 to do.

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MykSun Feb-03-02 09:31 AM
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#46. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Chickenman (Reply # 44)


  

          

In that case I'd say that I'm wrong on everything except that Nvidia needs to be making some statements to the 3dfx card owners.

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ChickenmanSun Feb-03-02 03:38 PM
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#48. "3DFX , Quantum3D and NVIDIA.... Long"
In response to Myk (Reply # 46)


          

Here's the link I was looking for the other night:

Quantum3d

In my post #45 I said that 3DFX sold Quantum3D the VS100 Technology. More correctly, they sold Quantum3D all of the remaining inventory of VS100 chips. This was probably in the order of several thousand.

I can't find it now, but x3DFX had a link to an interview with Quantum3D's CEO. In it he stated that they had enough stock of the VS100 chips to last them for the forseeable future. More importantly he stated " That obtaining more chips would not be a problem ".

This is only conjecture on my part, but I think there was probably a " three way dance " between 3DFX, Quantum3D and NVIDIA. Quantum purchases all the VS100 chips at a bargain price before 3DFX completes NVIDIA deal. Nvidia buys rights to some of the technology used in the VS100 and some patents. Quantum3D approaches NVIDIA about building more VS100's if and when they run out. Since Quantum3D also uses NVIDIA chips in it's " Obsidian " line, and is a fairly large purchaser, it would be good business practice to grant said manufacturing of said Vs100 chips. I would not be surprised if there was a stipulation that Quantum3D may only use NVIDIA manufactured VS100's in High end professional boards. IE: don't branch out into the Retail Video Gaming business boys!!.

Also quite interesting will be the debute of the new G4. Very probable that it uses some of the technology from the 3DFX " Rampage " chip ( So called V6 series ). Less well known is if NVIDIA got any rights, patents or technolgy on the " MoJo chip ( V7 series ). A lot of conjecture going around that 3DFX managed to sneak that engineering data " out the back door " before the NVIDIA deal was struck and that all the R&D disappeared off the premises.

As far as drivers for 3DFX cards go... not a problem. Thanks to very knowledgeble people at the x3DX Forum such as Nu Angel, Omega,Aiki, Cairey and of course with some guidance from a couple of REAL x3DFX staff, we now have drivers for everything from the VooDoo2 right throughto the V5 5500 ( and yes even the odd V5 6000 ) that are stable, fast, have full Directx8.1 compliancy and can play any current game made. Operating systems? Win9x, WinME, W2k, Linux and oh yeah.....XP. For every series of 3DFX card ever made.

One of the big changes in the last few months, was that all the third party guys such as Nu Angel, Omega Aiki etc all started working together instead of separately. Along with help from 3DFX ...oooops x3DFx ...employees such as Reid ( and a couple of others ) they combined their talents and basically formed a brand new driver developemnt team for us loyal 3DFX fans. The new 1.08.04 x3DFX drivers are suppossed to be the cat's meow. I'm going to try them out and see how they compare with the last " official " drivers from 3DFX. Apparently they offer substancial gains in speed and visual quality.

  

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magicjabbaThu May-22-03 01:30 AM
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#51. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to Mark099 (Reply # 17)
Thu Jan-31-02 01:04 PM

          

Here's mine:
Athlon XP 1900+
Soyo Dragon+
512MB 2100
Radeon 8500 OEM
Win XP

3DMark2001: 7177

That's after 4hrs of playing MAX PAYNE and running my vid card
@2xAGP.
Default values, and no overclocking.

And for those who think the Pentium 4 is the proc to beat, check the pics below. (why is it displaying links and not the pics?)




Rosewill Thor V2 Case
ASUS P8Z77-V
Intel I-5 3570
2x4GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600
XFX Core Edition FX-7870
60GB SSD Corsair Force Series GT
2TB Seagate Barracuda
Rosewill Hive-750W

Attachment #1, (html file)
Attachment #2, (html file)

  

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micksterThu Jan-31-02 05:13 PM
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#20. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to magicjabba (Reply # 51)


          

Well al those excellent Radeon #s really should make for some interesting hoopla when the GF4's hit the street next week.
I love competition!!!!...we win!

  

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magicjabbaThu Jan-31-02 09:33 PM
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#21. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to mickster (Reply # 20)
Fri Feb-01-02 03:40 AM

          

Odd thing is, I didn't buy the Radeon 8500 for performance, Hydravision was the deciding factor between it and a GF3.

Rosewill Thor V2 Case
ASUS P8Z77-V
Intel I-5 3570
2x4GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600
XFX Core Edition FX-7870
60GB SSD Corsair Force Series GT
2TB Seagate Barracuda
Rosewill Hive-750W

  

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longoFri Feb-01-02 11:23 AM
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#24. "RE: New Vidcard Benchmarks..."
In response to magicjabba (Reply # 21)


          

Just benchmarked mine.

1.2 gig t-bird
Epox 8kha+
256 mbs crucial ddr
Msi gforce 2 gts pro

3d mark 2001 - 4915


  

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micksterFri Feb-01-02 01:48 PM
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#25. "RE: Mark099...Question"
In response to longo (Reply # 24)


          

Mark,
Is that a retail ATI or an OEM 8500 you've got?
What are the clock speeds on the memory and GPU?
That's one of the main reasons I shyed away from the Radeon...the different versions of manufacturers with different clock speeds for what appears to be identical model #'s(e.g. Myk).

  

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Mark099Fri Feb-01-02 02:07 PM
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#26. "RE: Mark099...Question"
In response to mickster (Reply # 25)


          

It's a retail version clocked at 275/275.

I agree, it's a bit cheezy the way ATi underclocked the oem versions. By doing so, however, they sell more retail versions. As you can see the card benchmarks real well.

Mark099!



  

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magicjabbaFri Feb-01-02 04:51 PM
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#27. "RE: Mark099...Question"
In response to Mark099 (Reply # 26)


          

Where do I find info on overclocking just my Radeon 8500?

Rosewill Thor V2 Case
ASUS P8Z77-V
Intel I-5 3570
2x4GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600
XFX Core Edition FX-7870
60GB SSD Corsair Force Series GT
2TB Seagate Barracuda
Rosewill Hive-750W

  

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MykFri Feb-01-02 09:22 PM
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#30. "RE: Mark099...Question"
In response to magicjabba (Reply # 27)


  

          

http://www.rage3d.com/

http://www.rage3d.com/radeon/r3dtweak/

http://www.rage3d.com/board/

Since it's OEM, I suggest reading the message boards very well before you jump into any method of messing with it too far. Know who made your card and only try what has worked on other cards from that manufacturer.

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micksterSat Feb-02-02 01:54 AM
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#36. "RE: Mark099...Question"
In response to Myk (Reply # 30)
Sat Feb-02-02 02:03 AM

          

BTW...NewEgg dropped their price on the GF3 Ti200 128Mb card to $188 + $6 shipping yesterday.
The competition rises to the frey.. http://www.joytech.com/apollo7500%20PRO.htm?class=2

  

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Mark099Sat Feb-02-02 07:37 AM
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#42. "RE: Mark099...Question"
In response to mickster (Reply # 36)


          

Before Xmas... the MSI Ti200's were selling for $164.

Mark099!



  

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scaramoucheSun Feb-03-02 08:50 PM
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#49. "RE: Mark099...Question"
In response to Mark099 (Reply # 42)


  

          

Saw one on sale in Vancouver, Future Shop for $229 Canadian.

Guns don't kill people. Husbands who come home early kill people.

  

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Mark099Sun Feb-03-02 10:15 PM
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#50. "RE: Mark099...Question"
In response to scaramouche (Reply # 49)


          

Saw that too, but it was with a mail-in rebate. The deal is not as good as the Americans got at $99US after rebate.

BTW.... NewEgg has an MSI GF3 Ti200 for $144.

Mark099!



  

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