http://www.9news.com/news/local/article/278707/222/1-in-custody-14-dead-in-Aurora-theater-shooting

Holy shit. This is so fucked up.

Edit: This is about 30 minutes from my house. I'm still shocked. I feel so bad for the victims, especially the kids. Wow, this whole thing, just wow. Luckily, I don't think any of my friends/family were planning on going to this movie tonight.

Edit2: The death toll has been reduced to 12 now. I was just posting the story from the local news show I was watching at the time.

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QUOTE:Holy shit. This is so fucked up.

It certainly is... ;(

Don't forget, 38 others were Shot.

You don't have to Kill someone to F*ck-up their lives forever!

Ken:

No doubt. Many people will be deeply affected by this.

Yeah, this is a shocker. I found out about it on CNN this morning
and have been watching videos of people interviewed who were
in the theater when this happened and I can say
this is a pretty gruesome thing that has happened.
wow. Its such a tradjic thing when something like this
happens.

You know what bugs me the most? The news channels, (eg. CNN, Fox and all the others), use these kind of things as entertainment.

I heard about it early this morning on the radio, and haven't turned on the TV, except for about 15 Sec. I already seen enough.

I don't need to watch someone elses "Pain" to get entertained.

Ken:

How could any news operation not report it? I don't think CNN, or any news outlet can be criticized for the factual reporting of such an event.

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QUOTE:
How could any news operation not report it? I don't think CNN, or any news outlet can be criticized for the factual reporting of such an event.

Yeah that is right. That is what the news is all about
reporting on incidents around the globe that impact people.
so how can you expect them to not cover this. this is a big
story. They are not making fun of the victims or anything like that
they are just reporting the facts and covering the story.
Me I would be more upset if they didnt cover the story.
we need to learn about the facts of a case like this.

About five minutes from my daughters house. They got called in within a couple hours for the Fed investigation. Really sucks.

I heard about it this morning. (Had to shoo Noah out of the room while coverage was on. Did *NOT* want him seeing that on the news.) So horrible.

The news was interviewing a woman who was in there. She saw him come in, toss a pipe bomb/smoke grenade/whatever in which exploded filling the theater with smoke. (She thought it might have been tear gas, but admitted she could have been mistaken. Had a similar reaction, though.) The guy pointed his gun at her and she dove into the aisle so he didn't shoot her. Then, he would shoot people who were going towards the exits. So trying to escape from him could get you killed.

How anyone could do something this horrid is beyond me. (Then again, I have a sane mind. Sane minds can't conceive of a situation where "burst into a theater and gun everyone down" is an appropriate response.)

I have been hearing about this story pretty much all day long.
Its online > on the Cable TV and there's even special coverage reports
etc etc. They keep going over the same information pretty much
but they dont really seem to have any clue as to why this guy did this?? I mean this is a serious thing. Not the kind of thing a regular person just does because they had a bad day. Also they mentioned that he acquired some of the weapons over the course of three months or maybe more. So that leads me to believe the guy was planning something like this for a while. I just don't know why. I wish they would investigate that kind of thing. Did the guy have a psychiatric history? did the guy have some kind of huge financial loss or job loss or was the guy a victim of bullying or something who knows? but there has to be some reason. Was he involved in some kind of end of the world cult or something? but I guess time will tell.
I am sure they are going to be looking into finding people who knew the guy or worked with the guy or neighbors and they will be asking a lot of questions. but this is horrible. So much loss and so many wounded and even the people who were in the theatre but did not get wounded are going to be tormented just buy have been there and seeing what the saw and hearing what they heard. really sucks that one guy can cause so much damage.

http://rss.cnn.com/~r/rss/cnn_latest/~3/rYywg2aHgUk/index.html


here's a great article on guns and a solution,except for this:

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Of course, the Australian gun control law in 1997 enjoyed an extremely high level of public support and was not hampered by any domestic gun industry (since Australia did not have any).

Such would not be the case in the United States where pro-gun political views and NRA power create a very different climate. In the wake of another tragic massacre of innocent lives, we should look carefully at the Australian experience to see if the American public will ever rise up as one against gun violence.

and guess what the answer is?

edit: Nevermind

Yay! We turned this into another "f'n guns" thread!

Heroin is illegal, but I know where to get some if I really wanted to. And so do millions of others.

This theater would still be shot up if guns were illegal and/or more restricted in the US.

The problem is we have more assholes than most countries.

Not the guns.

Absolutely! You hit the nail on the head there!

And you also have the huge mass of weapons available that makes this that much easier. That is the point, not the number of assholes. All countries have volumes of assholes, but some attempt to restrict their stupidity.

Dave

I don't understand.

I really thought I made a good, clear, understandable point.

Let me re-phrase...

The heroin is easier to buy than a gun. Really it is. I have heroin on my mind because my back is killing me. :(

What he's getting at is that it doesn't matter if guns are illegal or not. If someone wants one they can get it. Just like illegal drugs. The guys apartment is booby trapped with explosives. Guess what? It's not legal to have those but he has them.

An episode of Cops... Two guys without shirts are sitting at a beer-bottle littered kitchen table. They're well into their second case of Bud. Somebody's gotta make a beer run. It's the other guy's turn. "No it ain't, it's your turn."

Next thing you know, fists are flying.

Thirty minutes later the cops show up. On the floor of the American kitchen lies a body with several bullet holes in it. Sitting at the table in the Canadian kitchen is a guy holding his bloody head in his hands because he got whacked upside it with a dirty frying pan.

There's the difference. We've both got idiots in bountiful supply. Your idiots have guns, our idiots have dirty frying pans.

For every one of our little kids who finds daddy's well-secured gun and blows himself or Johnny, Jr. from next door away, three of your little kids do the same.

What's the difference? You guys have more guns than our guys.

There's the problem -- an American birthright: forget the chicken, it's a gun in every pot. Your founding fathers had a brain fart and worded the second amendment of your constitution ambiguously. The result is carnage (a carnage that some of you seem content to live with if it means you can keep your deadly toys) and a thriving and powerful firearms industry without a conscience.

What happened yesterday is an anomaly. The only lesson we can take from that is that monsters walk among us. And they strike randomly and indiscriminately as lightning.

Gotta go -- my meat loaf is burning.

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Your founding fathers had a brain fart and worded the second amendment of your constitution ambiguously.

I don't think so. They wanted to protect people from the gov. if need be. The same with the 1st amendment, freedom of speech and religion. At the time they had just won the revolution and it wasn't settled what form the new gov. would take. I wonder if there was a political faction that wanted to disarm the population. I've read some of Thomas Jeffersons' writings and it seems as if there could have been.

Anyway, guns were used but they aren't the problem. This lunatic could have done the same with a machette or molotov cocktails.

It appears, from my perspective, that some of the greatest problems in the US today stem from:-

- fear of the government.
- fear of taxation by the government.
- fear of outsiders interfering/harming your precious existence.
- fear of your neighbours (Canadian spelling) and fellow citizens.

The constant in the above is, quite clearly, fear. What are you guys so damn scared about? Possibly only Iran appears to show the same level of fear, but with them at least it's their government doing the fearin', not the general populace.

Dave

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I wonder if there was a political faction that wanted to disarm the population.

Yeah, the Mohawk, Seneca, Onondaga and Cayuga Iroquois Confederacy.

Very well presented. Thank you.

Dave

But it's a helluva lot easier to get one in the USA.

This guy bought 4 firearms at different stores over a very short period of time. You don't think that some sort of firearms register might have lit a candle in some official's brain?

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Paul D

I think some mental health help for this guy maybe would have prevented this tragedy. I do not believe different gun laws would make any difference.

There are none so blind...

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Paul D

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QUOTE:
I think some mental health help for this guy maybe would have prevented this tragedy. I do not believe different gun laws would make any difference.

Ah yes the official mindset of the American people~

Guns don't kill people,people kill people~

It's ridiculous to even think of changing american's view on this issue,it's so ingrained in their psyche.

Don't forget your car keys ,the kids and your gun.

I've seen serious forums where these nut-jobs post pictures of their glocks or whatever else they own and then it's like an avalanche of other pictures being posted,like they're showing pictures of their kids or pets.

Are you bloody kidding me,what is wrong with this picture?

One of the reasons for my leaving the U.S. was the insane violence that was becoming an everyday occurrence in my country,nothing will change in the future either,it will only get worse unless the gun laws are changed .

The U.S.A. is fast becoming a paranoid nation,where the likes of the Zimmermans and his ilk dictate the way people live their lives.

Pretty damn sad.

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QUOTE:One of the reasons for my leaving the U.S. ...

Ah, well seeing as how you left maybe you should not worry yourself over us any longer. That's what pisses me off the most, almost everyone here bitching about our gun laws are from other countries. They don't affect you so don't worry about it, it's our business.

When guns purchased legally from American arms dealers who set up shop in states with lax regulations, specifically for the purpose of skirting the law and selling (sometimes by the car load) to opportunistic scum who then run them up to our drug-dealing bikers and the punks in our inner city gangs and, even more seriously, to the terrorists in Mexican drug cartels, you may begin to have almost as much reason to be pissed off about the situation as we others are.

As for the rest, maybe we should butt out. After all, you Americans don't ever involve yourselves uninvited into the affairs of others, do you? I mean, you folks certainly don't comment or pass judgement on how the other guy conducts business. Americans are like Caesar's wife.

Then again, maybe we're just curious to understand a unique mentality that completely baffles us -- you know, the one that favors a macho attitude over common sense.

Personally it upsets me to see so many lives needlessly lost. The country is largely irrelevant. It's just plain wrong.

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Paul D

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Ah, well seeing as how you left maybe you should not worry yourself over us any longer. That's what pisses me off the most, almost everyone here bitching about our gun laws are from other countries. They don't affect you so don't worry about it, it's our business.

The bullshit part of it is the proliferation of guns being smuggled over the US/Canada border by the criminal element. You've got a lot of nerve implying it doesn't affect anyone but the US.

Your weak financial regulation caused problems for much of the world, and this is another example. No country exists alone. We are all in this together in the modern global economy and with travel so rapid and effortless nowadays.

Dave

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QUOTE:The bullshit part of it is the proliferation of guns being smuggled over the US/Canada border by the criminal element. You've got a lot of nerve implying it doesn't affect anyone but the US.

Your weak financial regulation caused problems for much of the world, and this is another example. No country exists alone. We are all in this together in the modern global economy and with travel so rapid and effortless nowadays.

Dave

Hmm, I thought Canada had these wonderful gun laws that make everything oh so much better. So you're saying that fleeing the US was a futile guesture for you? And I don't recall this discussion being about world finance.

I've never fled the US. I was born in the same town in Canada that I currently live in. I just quoted an excerpt from one of your previous posts, where you responded to an ex US citizen.

How difficult is it to understand that we have pretty decent gun laws, but that just over our border is a booming illegal trade in weapons that criminals smuggle in. Your country is where the damn guns are coming from. Hell, are you really that dense?

Dave

You're also saying there is a market for illegal weapons in Canada. It would be interesting to know what percentage of crimes involving guns are commited compared to that of the US.

According to Statistics Canada, for the year 2006, 2.4% of all violent crimes committed involved a firearm.

For the USA in the year 2000: "Victimizations involving a firearm represented 8% of the 6.3 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault... According to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) in 2000, 533,470 victims of serious violent crimes (rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated assault) stated that they faced an offender with a firearm." -- US Bureau of Statistics.

So, 2.4% Canada, 8% USA. Accidental shootings, I have no idea. I can only surmise percentages would be similar.

So in the US a person commiting a violent crime is more than three times as likely to use a firearm than the same in Canada. You're probably right availablility is a big factor in the use of a weapon but that doesn't mean the crime wouldn't have happened at all. This guy is crazy. It looks like he planned this over a several month period and if he couldn't buy weapons he might have used a car to plow through a crowd, who knows?

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QUOTE:
I've never fled the US. I was born in the same town in Canada that I currently live in. I just quoted an excerpt from one of your previous posts, where you responded to an ex US citizen.

My bad, I apologize for that. I mixed up the posts. It wasn't you who fled the US.

You say there's a booming illegal gun trade in Canada? Well that just proves the point that if you outlaw guns then only the criminals will have them.

You're usually an intelligent guy, but you really lose it on this topic. That's twice now you've missed or ignored Dave's point that the illegal firearm trade in Canada is in the main due to Canada's proximity to the USA.

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Paul D

Firearms are not outlawed in Canada. They are controlled!!!!

A short gun can be legally obtained in Canada, but the potential owner has to jump through bureaucratic hoops before he can purchase one.

And that's the way a vast majority of us like it. We don't want Canada awash in guns -- legal or illegal.

And of course there is a market here for illegal firearms, as there is everywhere on this bloody planet, and you Americans seem more than happy to meet the demand.

Our solution to the criminal element being armed with illegal weapons is not and will not be to equally arm the general populace. To us it seems insane that anyone should think that a solution to the problem.

Quote:

QUOTE:
Firearms are not outlawed in Canada. They are controlled!!!!

A short gun can be legally obtained in Canada, but the potential owner has to jump through bureaucratic hoops before he can purchase one.

And that's the way a vast majority of us like it. We don't want Canada awash in guns -- legal or illegal.

And of course there is a market here for illegal firearms, as there is everywhere on this bloody planet, and you Americans seem more than happy to meet the demand.

Our solution to the criminal element being armed with illegal weapons is not and will not be to equally arm the general populace. To us it seems insane that anyone should think that a solution to the problem.

Ditto all that Australia, despite the lies the NRA constantly peddle to the contrary.

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Paul D

That seems to be reasonably true. At least here when someone gets a gun there are some laws that help prevent them getting into the wrong hands. Perhaps the laws need to be more pronounced and updated.

It is very easy to get a gun in this country if your record is clean.
In spite of this tragedy and a few others there are very few problems if you take into consideration "How Many" people in the USA have guns. Almost everybody I know including myself have a gun of some sort. This is our right and it should not change.
Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
How many enemy countries think twice about invading our land knowing this? How many lives do having guns save? That seems to escape this topic. If you want "True" Freedom then having a gun legally is a huge part of it in our Land. Most of the crimes committed in this country and all the other countries are because of Illegal guns and not because of the ones that the average american owns.

Legal or Illegal guns will always be a part of this world and that will not change now or in the near Future.

I can't imagine a society where it is illegal for its citizens to have firearms but the military and police are allowed to have them.
This is one of the most important things in our constitution and protects us from anybody trying to take our freedom away from us.

We must take the good with the bad. It all boils down to self defense.
Having the right to bare firearms is all about "Self Defense" and being able to protect our freedom and our homes from invasions of all sorts.

Personally, I am fearful of all guns and treat them with the highest of respect.

Even in countries with strongly controlled gun ownership, such as Canada, illegal guns will exist. That much is true. But the proliferation of guns does NOT, no matter what the NRA would like you guys to believe, make for a safer country or a safer populace. Just check the statistics for the US regarding violent crimes and firearms usage, and then compare with other countries. Where I live, the bulk of violent crime is one criminal killing another criminal, usually rival gangs. As far as I'm concerned, that is a relatively trivial problem. As long as innocent people aren't getting harmed, gang members shooting each other just thins out their herds.

The number of issues due to an individual without a criminal record picking up a gun in a fit of rage and causing death or injury is low here. I'm sure you can find instances of such events, but the per capita rate is low. The facts are clear - accessibility of guns leads to injury and/or death increasing due to guns. For some absolutely absurd reason, the typical US citizen cannot seem to understand that.

Quit quoting the propaganda spewed forth by the gun lobby, and look at the facts yourself.

Dave

In spite of all the carnage and death associated with firearms the Us will never let go of their guns. They Just will not let the laws change. Tnis goes very deep into our rights to bear arms. They will not go away any time soon.

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QUOTE:
In spite of all the carnage and death associated with firearms the Us will never let go of their guns. They Just will not let the laws change. Tnis goes very deep into our rights to bear arms. They will not go away any time soon.

Sad, but very, very true.

Dave

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QUOTE:
In spite of all the carnage and death associated with firearms the Us will never let go of their guns. They Just will not let the laws change. Tnis goes very deep into our rights to bear arms. They will not go away any time soon.

Well to some degree you are right. The Right to bear arms is a constitutional right. and that will probably never go away. But I will tell you. Many states can and do really crack down on gun ownership... and they don't stop people from having guns. but they make it more and more difficult to get a permit to own one legally and some states make you register each gun you have and then you have to abide buy all kinds of laws > like transportation of the weapons and how you store them and so forth. so Yeah, they will probably never stop people from having them in general. but they will make it harder and harder to get a permit to own one legally with all kinds of rules to follow... and they will make the punishment for breaking those rules and or having a gun without a permit more severe.

SO fore me. Sh*t I just dont want one.

but other states in the US the process to become a legal gun owner is much simpler.

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QUOTE:
How many enemy countries think twice about invading our land knowing this? How many lives do having guns save?

At a rough guess, absolutely none to the first question, and a nett minus quantity to the second.

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Paul D

I think your reasoning facile, but your fervor reveals an almost religious zeal. Although living in a long established constitutional democracy, arguably the most stable and free in the history of mankind, you still fear authority to the point that you knowingly jeopardize the immediate safety of yourself and your children. The irony is that since in America you, the people, are the government, it follows you must then fear yourself and keep arms to protect yourself from yourself.

I've come to the conclusion you folks are unreachable. Guns are an American national fetish.

I've given this my best shot (no pun intended). But I'm an old bugger, and you guys have worn me down. I surrender.

Good luck to you, I've a feeling you're gonna need it.

The availability of guns is what causes increased crime statistics, NOT who has them. Check the statistics for our two countries with respect to deaths and violent crimes by firearms and you will see that to be true. The Canadian figures are significantly lower than the US, but would be a lot lower yet if criminals weren't so easily fed illegal weapons by unscrupulous US sellers just south of our border.

Dave

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QUOTE:
Yay! We turned this into another "f'n guns" thread!

Heroin is illegal, but I know where to get some if I really wanted to. And so do millions of others.

This theater would still be shot up if guns were illegal and/or more restricted in the US.

The problem is we have more assholes than most countries.

Not the guns.

And you know this because...?

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Paul D

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And you know this because...?

Because only a fool would think otherwise.

Is that really the best you can come up with?

Australia's last mass shooting was 16 years ago. Remind me how many the USA has had since then, even allowing for the population difference.

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Paul D

Quote:

Is that really the best you can come up with?

Yes.

I just simply don't have the strength anymore for these pointless, idiotic debates where you (and others), live in this unbelievable pipe dream with such a naive, simplistic thinking on the subject matter.

I normally don't agree with the idea that every one should be armed bit (or conceal and carry for that matter, mind you, I'm not really pro-gun at all), but if the guy in the front row of the theater had a gun, the death toll would have been a lot less.


Which makes be wonder....I don't think anyone in the theater had a gun that night.

People paint this picture like the USA is just a huge, maniacal, gun toting society. If that were true, 15 people, at least would have pulled out their Glocks in that theater, and shot this perp dead. No one did.

In my long, and experienced :) 31 years on this planet, I've probably only seen a gun once, and it was the only time I've shot one. That's it. I've never been around guns, owned guns, shot guns, etc.. That goes for the people I've associated with all my life as well. And I grew up in a very urban area.

I'm sorry, but I never thought that your crowd actually believed that if guns were illegal, mass shootings like this would cease to exist. That's actually quite shocking.

The Columbine killers, and the illegal drug trade would like a word with you.

Or possibly more. A lot of you live in this fantasy world where everyone who carries a weapon is a crack shot. Who's to say the guy in the front row wouldn't have missed the maniac and shot a fellow patron.

I vaguely recall one situation a few years ago (I think in New York) where a couple of cops were wounded in crossfire by friendly fire. And cops are (supposed to be) trained in firearm use.

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Paul D

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Or possibly more. A lot of you live in this fantasy world where everyone who carries a weapon is a crack shot. Who's to say the guy in the front row wouldn't have missed the maniac and shot a fellow patron.

Or killed someone driving home due to road rage. Which is why I would normally say that carrying a gun on your hip like the wild west is unnecessary, however, I would find it hard to believe that if the dead Marine had a gun that night, he (and many others) would not be dead or injured.

Makes sense, sorta like always sporting a grounded lightning rod -- just in case. Of course, a proliferation of portable lightning rods would be kinda innocuous -- they don't accidentally, or sometimes even on purpose, go off and kill people. Still, everybody packing has its points. Saturday night shoot outs among the teenage crowd at the Bijoux might add some much needed spice to a rather, at present, sedate movie going experience.

I'm one of Paul's crowd, and I don't think tighter gun regs will prevent revenge-obsessed, shooter-game loonies from doing this sort of mayhem. However, they just might help cut down a little on the size and type of inventory brought to the party. Half as many rounds fired could result in half the body count. Might be just as effective as everybody and his uncle blazing away at the bad guy with their six-shooters.

For myself, I think the less people carrying the better. But, who knows, your speculation is certainly as good as mine.

Thirty-one, eh. Well, as promised, "Whipper" is retired. What a shame. It was so you. :evilgrin:

It was reported that a number of people in the audience were armed, even though the majority of the crowd were young people.

Fortunately, not one of those armed was stupid enough to start shooting in a dark crowded space, with tear gas grenades having been exploded.

This was not a combat situation, it was a theater filled with children and families.

Do you remember where you saw that? I don't recall hearing that in any of the coverage I saw.

I don't recall seeing anything about that either. But if true, it kind of throws out all the crap here implying that legally armed citizens will behave like cowboys and vigilantes and just start shooting willy nilly.

I don't think I actually suggested they would. But some posters here have recommended that sort of response, and I was simply pointing out one possible (likely?) result of that.

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Paul D

I wasn't referring to anyone specifically. It was just a generalization.

I don't remember, but I think it was on a TV report,

The theater in Aurora had a policy in place forbidding the carrying of concealed weapons by individuals for self defense. I think you will find this was a mainly younger and family audience and people were not carrying weapons. There were people that would not go there because of this policy. It would not have affected an LEO from carrying his off duty weapon.

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QUOTE:
Yay! We turned this into another "f'n guns" thread!

Heroin is illegal, but I know where to get some if I really wanted to. And so do millions of others.

This theater would still be shot up if guns were illegal and/or more restricted in the US.

The problem is we have more assholes than most countries.

Not the guns.

I agree with you. when an episode like this goes down. they want to restrict gun laws. But I really don't think that is the solution.
Gun laws only regulate how people can get guns legally > but the truth is that there will always be a way for psychos to get them illegally. But unfortunately there is no easy solution to stop these kinds of events. There are disturbed people out there and once in a while one of the them snaps and does something messed up to hurt a bunch of others. And what are we going to do. install medal detectors and have security in every building > even movie theaters and grocery stores etc. We could but that would be costly and an inconvenience. Anyway this is a tragedy for sure.

6-year-old girl confirmed to have been killed in Colorado theater shootings

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/20/12861792-6-year-old-girl-confirmed-to-have-been-killed-in-colorado-theater-shootings?

Why would anybody bring a 6 year old to a Midnight showing of "Anything"?
This whole situation is so sad it goes beyond words.

That is so far away from the point.

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Paul D

That is why I posted it. This thread has been hijacked and "should be" more about things like that.

One thing that I noted right away was how the guy entered the theater. He bought a ticket and went in. He then later left through a fire exit, but was able to come back in through that same exit. One would think that the business would have those exits set up so that nobody could sneak into a show. It is probably true with this theater as well, and the guy may have rigged it so he could enter. I see the possibility of the theater being accountable for that in court.
JP

He blocked the door so it wouldn't shut the whole way. It's not the theaters fault.

This is an aerial view showing where he parked with the theater door in the upper left. He blocked the door as you said. My son in law is one of these Federal agents in this picture processing the scene yesterday.

http://timenewsfeed.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/colorado-shooting-042.jpg?w=576

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/justice/colorado-shooting-weapons/index.html


How do you buy 6000 rounds of ammo on the internet and not get flagged by any security?

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QUOTE:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/justice/colorado-shooting-weapons/index.html


How do you buy 6000 rounds of ammo on the internet and not get flagged by any security?

Yeah that definitley should have sent a red flag to somebody
I mean 6,000 rounds > that sounds like somebody who is ready to go to war. Well you can be something will be put into place to stop that kind of thing.

He forgot to order the howitzer. UPS offers next day delivery, I believe.

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QUOTE:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/justice/colorado-shooting-weapons/index.html


How do you buy 6000 rounds of ammo on the internet and not get flagged by any security?

Well, there is The Armory. http://gizmodo.com/5927379/the-secret-online-weapons-store-thatll-sell-anyone-anything

But accumulating ammo is as easy as visiting various different local shops. The only way to stop that would be to establish a database and limits, and then have dealers check the database. Don't expect anything like that to happen because of the Second Amendment.
JPhttp://gizmodo.com/5927379/the-secret-online-weapons-store-thatll-sell-anyone-anything

Yup from the pic you can see he had it planned which emergency exit he would go out > get his stuff fro his car and then get back in. and as somebody in this thread mentioned its not the fault of the theater. They have to have emergency exits that open and close and you cant expect them to have a guard at each door 24/7. You can see a trail of blood in the picture. that is sad. I am just lucky that they caught this guy. I am surprised that he didn't do himself in before they nabbed him.

this is really sad.

The naiveté exhibited here is monumental.

Anyone can go on the internet and buy any kind of weapon they want including machine guns and sniper riffles. no ID needed , no waiting period, no questions asked. all you need is money. You don't believe me? Use Google, I will not post sites because I don't wish to make it easy for the nuts who may read this.

So go ahead and make guns illegal, the only people who will have guns are criminals and lunatics.

Buying 6000 rounds of ammunition is not only easy, it is common. Avid shooters can go through that in a weekend.

I will give you that one, www.bulkammo.com is the biggest, but Google will provide you with over 7,000,000 other hits.

Gun laws will never be toughened in this country because we have the best Congress that money can buy, and the NRA, which will destroy any politician who tries to pass such laws. They are the most powerful lobby in Washington, and can rally thousands of voters in any congressional district in the nation. That is one more reason why our Congress enjoys the lowest public approval rating of any division of government.

Most politicians only exhibit courage on safe issues, not on any issue that will cost them their next election.

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Gun laws will never be toughened in this country because we have the best Congress that money can buy, and the NRA, which will destroy any politician who tries to pass such laws.

Spoken like a true Floridian!

The sad fact is that when supposedly intelligent people like you think this is normal..........well there's not much to say anymore.

I think Shelly's comment is merely stating a fact regarding the US mindset. I don't think he's actually supporting it.

Dave

You think, but are you certain? As you might observe from the completely different takes on Shelly's comments in posts 63 and 68, there seems room for ambiguity -- both irony and sarcasm go completely over the heads of some.

Besides, I don't think anyone here but unreformed hippie and inveterate bed wetter, James, has gone so far over the top as to propose turning all guns, legal and illegal, into proverbial plowshares. The more sensible of you have suggested saner control of their sale and distribution, as I interpret Shelly was hinting. You know, things like making it a little more difficult for the incompetent and insane to build an armory that would be the envy of a small country. Something like making as certain as possible that the "avid" shooter who is wasting six thousand rounds of ammo per fun weekend is actually completing his orgasm by ejaculating in the direction of inanimate objects.

Those stolid guardians of the second amendment who echo NRA talking points, and by doing so champion a repulsive status quo, invariably use inflammatory words like ban and outlaw, disarm and confiscate. In my opinion, they are either being deliberately disingenuous or they are simply too bloody obtuse for redemption.

Of course, even under stricter control the black hats, by hook or by crook, would have the tools of their trade -- as they always have had and always will. But so would the police and the military and professional security and anyone else who can pass a sanity test, prove competence to own and handle, and show a legitimate need to possess -- whether that be for the purpose of collection, competition, or defense of oneself or one's property. That's the way it works in places where only one child per one hundred thousand, not three, gets a bullet hole before he or she proudly observes the appearance of his or her first pubic hair.

To all you good folks who fear the possibility of black helicopters or a boot heel kicking in your door in the middle of the night, you may be assured that if you have let your constitutional democracy slip to the level that a monster has taken possession of the White House and has the loyalty of the military and police, that little pop gun you have stored in a shoebox in your closet is not going to save you and yours from the terrors of the camp.

And speaking of rights, it's occurred to me that it's also a right to cut off your nose to spite your face. Thankfully, it's your choice whether or not you choose to exercise it.

Wow, James, seems like you've got your second wind and found a nice big reserve supply of hot air. So I guess, against my better judgement, I'm back once again blissfully pissing into the wind in this apparently infinite loop.

What the hell -- I love it!

Another rough night I see.

Your comment is repulsive and unwarranted. But then, what else is new.

You're probably just jealous that James can compose infinitely superior posts to yours, even when your jaundiced mind would like to think he is under the influence.

I like to think I have a reasonable command of written English, but I regularly stand in awe of James's command of the language.

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Paul D

Well, thank you, Paul -- that's very generous of you.

I did aspire to be a writer way, way back in my younger days. But after spending a couple of years in a lonely corner with a battered old Underwood and reams of paper, I came to the conclusion that although I'd picked up a few tricks of the trade along the way and had learned how to say things reasonably well, I pretty much had nothing new to say.

So, I moved on. As Kenny Rogers says: "You gotta know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em."

But I do still enjoy the occasional foray -- although often in the cold light of a new day, when I read something I'd thought a masterpiece, I wince and admit to myself I'm in dire of an editor. Unlike Mark Twain, I really haven't met the adjective or adverb I don't like.

But thanks again for the compliment. You don't do so badly yourself.

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So go ahead and make guns illegal, the only people who will have guns are criminals and lunatics.

Just checking, but wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the only people without guns would be law abiding civilians?

I would like to know how the bedwetters on this site propose to disarm the US public. Rumor has it, that the “volunteer” gun collection done in Australia was a success on paper only. Most of the guns just went into hiding, meaning the honest folk just put them away and deny ownership.

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I would like to know how the bedwetters on this site propose to disarm the US public.

Very carefully. Gotta turn the mattress.

Which would mean they're not honest folk.

When you say rumour, you mean NRA propaganda.

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Paul D

QUOTE:

Which would mean they're not honest folk.

When you say rumour, you mean NRA propaganda.

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Paul D


How many guns did you turn in Paul? ;-)

Every one I owned.

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Paul D

:lol: I think that's a trick answer. I'm going to guess you had none, so therefore you turned in none...which would be everyone you owned ;)

I don't think so. I have no doubt there are many criminals in the USA who don't have guns. You don't actually need a gun to break into a building or mug someone, although it doubtless helps. And that's not counting the multitudes of corporate criminals that abound in modern society.

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Paul D

Yeah its true. You cant make Americans Safer buy making them defenseless.

that is the opposite of what needs to happen.
If there had been on good law-biding person in that theater
with a firearm.. they could have returned fire
against this assailant and the number of people shot
and killed would be much lower.

so I dont have all the answers. But making it harder for
good people have weapons to defend themselves just makes
more good people sitting ducks for assh*oles like this
nutcase who went on a shooting spree.

Police officers cant be everywhere.
Americans need to be able to protect themsleves at times.

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If there had been on good law-biding person in that theater
with a firearm.. they could have returned fire
against this assailant and the number of people shot
and killed would be much lower.

Not in this case. He was armed with an assault rifle and wearing body armor. It would have been very hard for a person armed with normal LEO weapons to stop him. It would have changed his focus for a second but not a good chance to take him out. It would not have been a good day for an LEO or citizen to confront him alone. The people would still not have been able to exit the theater faster because of the bottleneck getting out.

I disagree with you. Usually guys like this are cowards.
Yes in this case he kept shooting and shooting.
but if somebody returned fire the coward probably would have
ran out the door.. it would have interrupted his plans
and stopped a lot of the unnecessary violence. Lives would
have been saved... even if just a couple it would have
been worth it.

Wishful thinking. I hate to say this, but I believe Ed's scenario is far more likely than yours. This was carefully and cold-bloodedly planned.

Hell's bells. Seen him in court? He is working very carefully and hard on his insanity defence.

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Paul D

QUOTE:

Wishful thinking. I hate to say this, but I believe Ed's scenario is far more likely than yours. This was carefully and cold-bloodedly planned.

Hell's bells. Seen him in court? He is working very carefully and hard on his insanity defence.

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Paul D



I still believe its worth it in a situation like that
to attempt to stop the guy. Anybody can keep shooting
and shooting if nothing opposes them. but somebody
comes against them and it throws a monkey wrench into the
whole plan. catches the guy off guard.. its worth it
to come against a person who is on a shooting spree
trust me.

Yes I have seen him in court and I believe his got this ACT
going on. Now hes in there trying to make like hes all disoriented
and doesn't know whats going on but that is all bullcrap.
Thats a show for the cameras... something him and his defense attorney probably planned.

He know exactly what he did and it was all premeditated.
There is no way he should get off on some kind of insanity plea.
The guy was a college student
for years and was a really good student too. And he planned this thing out methodically at least 3 months in advance. That tells
me this guy is not insane > but rather he is an educated person
who just decided for whatever reason that he wanted to take
whatever frustrations in his life out on innocent people and
make headlines.

Guy is loser. they should give this guy the death penalty
and it should be done quickly too > to set and example that this
kind of thing is not going to be tolerated and so that he doesnt
become like a martyr figure for other aspiring nutcases who are considering doing something like this.
This guy should get a trial be convicted. Maybe get a couple
months in lockup to think about what he did then the death penalty.

In your dreams. This'll drag on for years. And the state is considering not seeking the death penalty, simply because of that fact and the ongoing stress that will impose on the victims' families, who in the end will suffer much more than this guy, who has no conscience. Nice to see the legal system showing sympathy for the victims' families.

Never lose sight of the fact that your legal system (and ours) pivots on the principle of innocent until proven guilty. Anything else is a short step away from anarchy and lynch mobs.

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Paul D

Or perhaps more. Whenever I hear claptrap like this I immediately envision the innocent caught in the crossfire.

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Paul D

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/07/us/aurora.shooting/index.html

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Suspect James Holmes purchases a ticket and walks into the movie theater. He sneaks out an exit door and leaves it propped open, gathers his weapons and gear, and walks back into Theater 9 through the exit door.
Approximately 12:37 a.m. -- Witnesses say the movie has been under way about 20 minutes in Theater 9 when an exit door to the right of the screen opens and a man walks in. They say he is dressed all in black and wearing what appears to be a bullet-proof vest and a gas mask. He throws something, which begins hissing and emitting smoke. Witnesses say the suspect shoots into the ceiling and then starts firing into the crowd. Pandemonium follows as people start scrambling to get out, hide under the seats and escape any way they can.
12:39 a.m. -- Aurora police say dozens, perhaps hundreds, of calls start flooding 911. The dispatcher calls to units: "They're saying someone is shooting in the auditorium."

Moments later she adds: "There is at least one person shot, but they're saying there's hundreds of people just running around."

Inside the theater, witnesses say the gunman is calmly firing into the crowd. Some of the shots penetrate into a neighboring theater, where witnesses suggest others may have been hit. Witnesses say they see victims slumped on the floor as they flee while others are running out wounded.
12:40 a.m. -- Officers arrive on scene in little more than a minute after the 911 call and request massive backup. "I've got people running out of the theater who were shot," says an officer on a call.

"Got a victim who was shot in the face," another adds.

One says, "We have a party in the car, shot."

Dispatch orders that "all available units respond to theater."
12:42 a.m. -- Officers surround the building, focusing on Theater 9. Witnesses are telling them there is still "someone actively shooting" inside. Officers smell something which one identifies as pepper spray. An officer says, "Get us some damn gas masks for Theater 9, we can't get in!"

Inside, police say, the gunman was shooting at the crowd with an assault rifle, a shotgun and a .40-caliber handgun. Police say he fired "a lot of rounds very rapidly."
12:44 a.m. -- Victims continue pouring out from Theater 9 as officers are clearing neighboring theaters.
12:46 a.m. -- Just outside the back of Theater 9, officers say they find a man who matches the suspect's description and take him into custody. They report over radio: "We've got rifles, gas mask, he is detained right now. I've got an open door going into the theater."

A commanding officer responds, "OK, hold that position. Hold your suspect."

Police later say -- in addition to the vest and gas mask -- the suspect was wearing a ballistic throat protector and groin protector, as well as what police call "black tactical gloves."

Police are inside Theater 9 finding many more victims. "I've got seven down in Theater 9," one says over the radio. "We need rescue inside the auditorium, multiple victims."

One adds, "I've got a child victim. I need rescue to the back door of Theater 9 now."

Another says, "I got one victim eviscerated."

Police and witnesses describe a wide variety of injuries; people shot in the arms, legs, neck, and back.
12:51 a.m. -- Police say the "suspect says he is the only one."
12:55 a.m. -- Police establish a perimeter around the entire mall area to look for witnesses, victims, and any possible accomplices. With ambulances unable to carry all the victims, other police officers are transporting victims to hospitals in their squad cars.

Not enough is being said about the awesome job done by local police. That timeline is incredible. Other timelines I've seen vary a bit, but all of them indicate the quick, professional, efficient response.
- Police units arrived on scene in less than 90 seconds from the first 911 calls.
- Suspect in custody within 5-10 minutes of first 911 calls.
- Some police officers transported victims to hospitals in their squad cars to get them quickest possible medical care.

Good job. Damn good job.

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QUOTE:Good job. Damn good job.

That's for sure.