I was trying to install Logitech Cordless iTouch keyboard and mouse. it was not even loaded, I thought. So i gave up. Hook my old mouse and keyboard back and it won't work. GoBack 3.0, it seemed override everthing. I press F8 to go into safemode, Del key to get into setup, etc., all to no avail. Win2K continues to load. Then neither the keyboard nor the mouse work. NO input of any kind. Tried to boot with floppy, Win just ignored it and keep loading.
Cam anyone help with this?? thanks.
Wes

How are you trying to boot with the floppy. What Floppy? If you want to boot Windows 2000 you have to use the 4 boot disks not the ERD. Boot from your CD it is faster.

Does the keyboard work while you are booting? Logitech has had issues with their drivers and Windows 2000 & SP2. I don't know about the keyboard but the mouse drivers have had big issues in the past.

Do you have floppy boot enabled in your Bios. I think you have to enable other devices also. It is usually an couple of lines down.

Make sure everything is enabled in Bios also. IR, USB all IDE etc..

Well hope some of this rings a bell! :-)

maggie:
yes, i used the win2k bootable floppy. it would not boot from cd or anything. the problem is that windows is loaded, except that the keyboard and mouse freeze. there is nothing defective about the mouse or keyboard because when i switch the harddrive (i ahave a second unit), as i am doing now, to be able to get to this site, the mouse and keyboard works. In others words, Win2K loads, but there is no movement in the mouse or keyboard. I tried DEL key and it boots, and F8, it does not work because the keyboard is not working. i switch keyboard and mouse, nothing happens. It is not the keyboard or mouse becaue i am using them at this moment, attached to a different unit of pc.
i am prepared to format my c:\ but it cannot get to it to do that.
i am at a loss. thnaks for trying to help. Wes

Well something isn't right. You should be able to boot with those boot disks or the CD. Did you try the disks out and know they work before you lost your KB? When you went into the Bios and changed the boot order did you make sure and go to save and exit? Say "Y" to the prompt.I know these questions might seem silly, but you should be able to at least boot from the floppies. If you made an ERD before the problem that should get you back on track.
Go back into the Bios and try again.

maggie:
yes, i built this unit a few days ago. been to the bios, etc.
that was what i was trying to do when i press DEL key as it boots.
the input was not functioning, somehow. i then tried F8, hoping i can get into safe mode. the input does not pass that info. (I don't want you to suspect keyboard, mouse, etc., b/c they are in order. when i switch the pc unit , it mouse works.
i put Partition Magic in the Cd drive. it loads, but the cursor freezes in the middle of the screen. I was prepared to format c:\ if that is what it takes.
this happened while i was trying to install cordless iTouch driver. i am at a loss. One thing for sure: i will remove GoBack; it conflicts easily with other stuff. i am at my wit's end, maybe i just take to the store and let them figure out. i feel like a fool; put the unit successfully (w/some help from this forum) and now it is the keyboard and mouse--the least high-tech stuff--is killing me!!
wes

Wes,
It sounds like that Logitech mouse and keyboard are really being a pain in the ass.
Why don't you get rid of them and just get a normal fifteen dollar keyboard and a PS2 mouse.

thanks horatio and maggie for your input. i will get rid of the iTouch keyboard. it has been a pain....
maggie's idea about battery and cmos. i have clearee the comos after putting the unit. so i know how to do that. but i don't understand the consequences. it clears all previous data. can i then boot or would it not bootable at all? i don't know what happens after that.
My new HD has several logical partitions; my old unit has 2 HD, c:\ is bootable. what is the best and easiest way of handling this, horatio? Take out the old c:\ drive and install it in thed new pc as Primary Master and make the current unbootable primary master into a slave. is that the way best?
thanks for thinking this through with me to both of you.

Wes,
Did you clear your CMOS yet? It doesn't wipe out data. It just wipes out all your settings. It should just boot up to the default BIOS settings.
Before you worry about wiping the C partition on your new drive you should be able to get into your BIOS setup.

Yah I subcribed to that thread. You are sure you didn't bump something while you were in the case? Can't get into the Bios this is bad. You aren't by chance networked to the other machine are you?
Try pulling the Mobo battery and move the jumpers to clear the CMOS. This is a big shot in the dark but might get you into the bios. If I remember right the instructions were in your other thread. I thought you were just SOL when you got into Windows.

I read about a similar problem when someone put SP2 on their machine. Wish I had saved it was under new user,hardware or general for Windows 2000. Right after SP2 came out. http://communities.microsoft.com/newsgroups/NewsGroups.asp?ICP=GSS&sLCID=us

I've lost my mouse a couple of times in 2000 there was no joy so I understand, this has got to be way worse. I now use XPPro on both machines. I cut my troubleshooting teeth on Windows 2000. It can be finicky.

EDIT Forget going to Microsofts web based forums they only go back to the beginning of this year. The search function sucks. I can't get them any farther than January of 2002.
I used to download those into my newsreader when I got a new OS.

maggie, see my post #7. appreciate your helpfulness.

maggie and horatio:
thanks for the suggestion regarding cmos.
on reflection i decided to take that leap of faith. it worked!!
after i got into cmos, etc., i discovered for unknown reason, the partitions were corrupted; i had to re-partition all over. hate to tell you how many times. thanks for bailing me out.
horatio, thanks got sticking w/me; am genuinely appreciative.
there is no end to problems. now something else and maybe someone out can chip in. i thought i had an old monitor because i can only get 16 colors (640x480). when i click "display" there is only one option, which is 16 colors. when my new monitor here, it does the same thing, one 16 colors.
my soyo manual says "make sure that you have installed the SiS AGP driver." i cannot find it on soyo's cd (that came with the mobo), nor on the cd that came with the video card. any idea where i go to get this SiS AGP driver? thanks.
Wes

Here is their website http://www.soyousa.com/ I can't get the driver page to link. Just hit the support botton and grab it from there.


Here is the Sis page they mention a new AGP driver I'm not familiar with any of this I have Via and AMI boards http://www.sis.com/support/driver/index.htm

thanks a million maggie for your response and support.
see my following post to Bob--the plots thickens.

You have a Via chipset, not SIS - that's a misprint in the manual. Soyo doesn't even make a board for the XP with a SIS chipset.

Install the Via 4in1 from the Soyo CD if you haven't. Then install the video card drivers from its CD.

Edit: When you install the 4in1, choose Turbo mode for the AGP driver, this enables 4x AGP speed.

bob:
thanks for your support and advise. the manual is way off.
i did what you suggested; i had previously loaded 4 in 1; i re-install that again. and then i install the video driver from the cd. Bang, something really happened when i rebooted: the windows loads and then shoots through it (a flicker of dark blue screen just light lightning) and reloads itself, again and again.
i tried repairing windows; won't work; i did a full re-installation of windows, it still won't work. now i hook up my old pc to type this.
the only solution is maggie's earlier suggestion: i would have to clear cmos again then begin life anew. or, like akin to the proverbial greek tragedy--the myth of sisyphus, who rolls the stone uphill,but as he was about to make it, the stone rolls back downhill. he is doomed to repeat this routine. does it look like that?
here i go, to clear the cmos, as maggie previously suggested.
Or, is that a better way, such as disabling something.
i can boot into bios. any suggestions?

I just don't know what to tell you Wes. You have a new computer, with a fresh installation of Windows. It should boot right up. Clearing CMOS isn't something you should ever really have to do. I've done it once, but that was a special case - it's not a cure-all for unknown computer ills, and only effects the BIOS settings.

I don't think you've said what kind and size of power supply you have. I assume it's new? It should be rated at 400W or better for your setup.

If the power supply is okay, what I'd do (you're not going to be happy about this) is format C: and start over. Before you do, remove any PCI cards - sound, modem whatever. When you reinstall Windows, just do it with a video card and nothing else installed that you don't need for the installation (like your CD drive.)

So, when you first boot it up, there will be no software installed, no nothing, just Windows. And stop using that Go Back or whatever it was - you don't need it and those system invasive type things can be more trouble than they're worth.

To format C: I'd use a Windows98 startup floppy. If you don't have one, you can dl one at http://dos.li5.org/ - scroll to the bottom of the page and you'll see where they are. Get either the Win98 or 98se one. Follow the directions after you download it to make a floppy.

Then put the floppy in and boot it up. When it's ready, type format C: and hit enter. It will ask you if you're sure or whatever, and you answer with a Y for yes and N for no and enter. Just let it do it's thing and then reboot when it's done, but at that point you will be ready to install windows, so put the CD in before you reboot, and take the floppy out after it starts, so it will boot to the CD and you can go right to installing Win2k (I'm assuming that's how you are installing it, by booting to the CD.)

The general idea here isn't to follow my directions exactly, but to basically start over with a minimum installation on a clean drive C:. Once you get that going, you can worry over the rest.

By the way, do you know why Sisyphus kept at it? He liked it ;)

bob:
thanks for the detailed instructions. i appreciate that.
i'm leaving for chicago within the hour so would see your reply until late sunday. i do what to get back to you now.
first, no my power is 320watt. according to soyo's maual, it is enough. sound like i am wrong again. but if i need another case and power, hell, i will get it!
second, i do have windows98 on a third machine and i do have win98 cd. i don't know the edition. if that is no good, i don't mind downloadiong. my cable modemn has good speed. i have formatted c:\ and everything else 3 times, i think, so far!! (i have decided not to install GoBack)
third,i have no pci card or modemn; one video card is all i have; it is cheap stuff Gainward 3D graphic accerator. paid about $70 for it, and if that is a mistake, tell me!
bob, i have printed out your directions and will follow it to the letter! before i do that, if you can clarify some of the above questions that may help.

edit: at one point, when i was trying to load the driver for the video card with the cd in the cd drive, it says i have no vga card--even though it was right in the drive. when i re-directed it there, still no vga card!

Mind if I jump in here??
I have the SOYO Dragon board with RAID and onboard sound. And the Gainward GFORCE2 videocard with 3D rendering, 64 meg RAM on the card. I forget the stock number. If that's the card you have, I may have some helpful suggestions.
My onboard sound wouldn't work, had to install a Soundblaster. Everything else works fine, very tweakable BIOS.

The Gainward: forget the manual for install instructions. Manual tells you to install the "Gainward" drivers; what you need are the drivers labeled NVIDIA MX/MX400; I went around & around for 4 hours trying to get the "Gainward" dirvers to load, until I got mad and went for the above mentioned drivers and let the chips fall where they may. Drivers loaded and the card works beautifully, and the monitor adjustment tools are great. First I had to shut down the computer to "off", then re-start because it gets a "path" after repeated load attempts and wouldn't load the drivers, and then the MX400 loaded beautifully.

Wteo,
Just get Windows 2000 installed. Put SP2 on there. Don't worry about getting the latest and greatest 4n1's. Internet Explorer 6 works well also. Run it stable for awhile. Go to Windows Update get all the critical updates. SP2 will get most of those updates installed. It is pretty good about finding your hardware. Go to Device Manager and see if anything has a ? or X infront of it and deal with those. Newer Peripherals will need drivers also to get them installed.
When you make any changes stick a floppy in and make an ERD. 99% of the time you won't need it but it will get you back in if you do. I only takes a minute make sure that back up the registry is checked. Window 2000 doesn't do that for you like 98 and the others OS did. Just make sure that you are set to boot from the floppy, don't disable that in the Bios. If you do need to use the ERD always apply SP2 again. It won't hurt anything 2000 and XP will only replace what you need.
Microsoft just issued a new program called Baseline Security Analyzer use it periodically for your hotfixes. I downloaded all of them and keep them in a folder. Make this page your friend, http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/professional/default.asp
it will get you to everything you need for the OS. Only change one thing at a time. That way you will always know what you fubared. Go into System properties>Advanced and uncheck the reboot option. 2000 has better BSOD's than 98,Me. It will be needed to track the problem.

I forgot there is SRP1 also. I converted my old machine to XP Pro just after that came out.

maggie, thanks for sticking with me on this. i apprecaite your help. i also printed out your directions and will follow it. it is funny, i was aware of the security patches, etc., and did download them, but unfortunately it did AFTER all the other stuff were loaded first. i will reverse the process, the way you suggested.
will return sunday night to retrieve other posts. thanks. hope you have a good weekend.

Wes,
BobG is talking about a Win98 boot disk, not the Win98 CD. I don't think he was telling you to install Win98, just use that Win98 boot disk to boot up your computer and Format C:
He gave you a location to download one from or, if you have a Win98 machine, put your Win98 CD in the drive and browse to:

tools\mtsutil\fat32ebd\fat32ebd.exe

Put a new floppy in the drive and run that fat32ebd.exe file and it will make you a nice boot disk.

Also take another look at that video card. I would be inclined to pull it out and re-seat it in the AGP slot. Those tend to be finicky.
Make sure it is right down.

You have a nice weekend too.:D

Horatio is correct, my thinking is to be sure you've got your C: drive formatted properly, use the format tool from the Win98 startup floppy, rather than PM.

On the power supply, AMD's minimum recommendation for the XP chip is 300W, so you're right on that minimum. Most people are more comfortable with 400, because the XP takes a lot of current. It's extremely easy to replace the power supply, it's just held in with 4 screws that you access from the back outside of the case. They're not symmetrical, so you can only put it in one way. If you want to get a larger one, I found this link for a page with Antec's PP-403X

http://www.provantage.com/FP_08853.HTM

That would be a nice ps for you, and you wouldn't have to worry about it down the road. I've never shopped there, but it looks kind of interesting, I'm going to look at it further myself for future reference. I'm a little leery of the power supply you've got because they don't give any specs on it, and they call it a 320, but then have no 320 available in their ps section. I think they're hedging the rating a little bit, so I don't really trust it.

Gainward makes good stuff, there's nothing wrong with your card. Like Horatio said it just need to be reinserted. But still, I know you've done it a few times, but getting a new 400W power supply, using the startup disk to format your boot drive and starting over from there sounds like the best bet to me.

BobG, Horatio, Maggie:
thanks for taking the time to educate me; for sticking with me through thick and thin; after the weekend trip to chicago and returned to fix the pc as BobG suggested. thanks to Horatio for clarifying the point. i did as directed and reformatted c:\, reinstalled w2k, etc.
The machine now runs so smoothly and flawlessly--all due to your unfailing support and counsel. i am profoundly grateful to each of you. Sisyphus did roll the rock over the hill after!!
BobG, how he did you do it? He got a few people to help him!
i will put a 400 Watt. power supply at a later date.
Incidently, the problem i encountered earlier regarding the inability to get more than 16 colors, the blur screen and text, etc., all that is gone, too. i have my 256 colors and nice text.
it really works like a charm now. i was afraid that i won't be able to finish ironing out the problems before leaving on an extended trip to Tokyo, Bangkok and Malaysia! Now i can go in peace.
Am profoundly grateful to three of you. BobG, in particular, worked hard in helping me. Horatio, you are always there, to lend your expertise. Maggie, i have heeded your advice.

:-)

now, i have another problem.
at the time when i loaded win2k, an earlier version of i.e. was automatically installed. i decided to install i.e.6.0. when i tried to install hotpatches, it kept telling me that it could not be installed until i install i.e. 6. that was done. how do i solve this problem? thanks.

edit: unrelatedly, i have previous save some programs on cd-rw disk. when i tried to install the program on that disk, it kept saying that "read only file." what stipid thing have i done again?

Right Click the file after you moved it to your HD and uncheck Read Only. Anything coming off your CD will be read only. The only problem I have ever had with the read only is when I was trying to import a back up.PST for Outlook 2000.
Maybe a corrupt download try redownloading. Alex has a How To http://www.pcnineoneone.com/howto.html somewhere on how to download. IE and save it in Windows 2000. It should show up in Add/Remove Programs if the upgrade took. Click on that and look at the options. Mine installed fine on 2000. I ended up getting it through Windows Update. Try going back, turn off the virus software first, that might hinder the install. Did you make the ERD? Do that first. :-) Event Viewer might give you a clue as to what happened.

thanks maggie,
i have taken note of what you said. yes, i made a recovery disk.
things seem to be ok now, but hell will break loose again, i am sure.
i am wondering about the power supply. what are the signs or symptoms that i should notice if power is insufficient? can anyone give me some clues what to look for? thanks.

Hey Wes, glad to see you got this thing worked out. I don't think I'd worry about the power supply if things seem to be working fine - you aren't putting that much of a load on it. I was suggesting it as something to try, but now it would be more of a luxury I think. I don't know how it would act if it was a problem, except for general weirdness. The problem sometimes is you can't tell one weirdness from another, so with a larger ps, you'd have eliminated that as a concern. But really, leave well enough alone, unless you really want the thing.

BobG,
thanks for the quick response. i will keep that in mind; i just want to be sure that i know how to interpret weird behavior. i will leave alone for now.
it is a charm right; fast, smooth, etc. your tip on that boot disk and reformat was invaluable tool for me. i never had to use that before, but now i know it is very useful.
greatly appreciate your support, counsel, etc. thanks a million.

Hey Wes,
Congradulations on a job well done. Now, when the subject of building a computer from scratch comes up, you can truly say: been there, done that. Just for your information Wes, some of the usual signs of power supply problems would be:

Sometimes the computer will halt during booting and then maybe finally boot after a few tries.
Error codes during booting.
The computer will sometimes hang or stop for no reason or maybe even reboot itself.
Power supply gets very hot to the touch.
There can be other things but there are some things to watch for if you suspect the PS. is bad.
But like BobG said, if everything is working OK your current power supply is fine.
Good Luck...H

Horatio, Shelly, etc HELP!!
thanks horatio, that is what happened previously. it boots up, then it shoots beyond that (i don't know how to describe ths) and reboots itself, over and over!! read on, horatio, we celebrated prematurely!

i reformatted c:\ accoridng BobG instructions; that was great. it worked. when to sleep last night and this morning, it did the same thing after one night rest: it booted to the desktop, then 3 or 4 seconds later, it rebooted itself, etc.
shelly, the engineer in you maybe able to help me here. i don't know how to describe this too. i was trying to fix something and must have done some stupid thing. it has something to w/ "dynamics" and that led to the following message: "your old partition was 3, new partition is #5. you must edit boot.ini, then reboot immediately."
in the dos days i used to play with .ini, etc., but have not been there a long time, so take it easy.
at any rate, i decided that perhaps i would just reformat the c:\ again and reinstall everything (a chore); so i inserted the bootable floppy (Win98 startup) and lo, it says: "invalid drive specification"
i must have done something real stupid along the way. so, now i cannot even format the HD!! have i lost hd irretrivably? where do i go from here!
help guys!! thanks. (Refresh: i use Win2k)

Hi Wes,

" i was trying to fix something and must have done some stupid thing. it has something to w/ "dynamics" and that led to the following message: "your old partition was 3, new partition is #5. you must edit boot.ini, then reboot immediately."

Sorry to hear that. But first tell us what you were trying to do that got you to this stage. Were you inside the box tampering with things?
Check a few things:
BIOS settings for floppy drive - recheck it to make sure it is set to normal 1.44 "A" drive enabled
Boot order: first is "A" drive
Check the floppy drive itself Wes. The power connector - replug it and same with the cable (check the motherboard end and the drive end)
Don't Panic!!!
Someone will come along hopefully who knows that error message.

horatio,
no, i did not go into the box, etc. i was trying to insert a letter to the cd drive, (it shows drive #0, instead of G:) when i tried to do that w/ win2k, it kept saying i must create "dynamics..." so i went along, even it gave me warning about changes, etc. i cannot be coherent here because it have encountered this before. the first time, i did not go along; that was yesterday. when same message came up again, i went ahead this morning--i did that after the PC kept rebooting itself. i thought it must something to do with "dynamics .." something. when that was done, the screen message says: "old partition #3 has been changed to partion #5; edit boot.ini immediately, otherwise you won't be able to reboot."
when i used safemode to get into win2k, go to disk management, it shows the drives, fat32, etc. under the column "type" it says: "dynamic" i have not a slightest idea what that is.
any incoherent in this post is not intentional; it is due to ignorance. thanks for calming me down, horatio. i am a little panicky!

Wes,
I just want to bump you up and hopefully someone who understands the problem will give you some help.
It sounds like your hard drive has a corrupted partition table, but I'm not sure how to fix it short of wiping everything and starting over.
Hang in..

horation, thanks; as for floppy, it is the same one i downloaded yesterday; i had both win98 and win98se, which BobG referred me to.
i won't mind, frankly, to start all over again; but i think the partitions are corrupt, too. so i cannot just format c:\ or d:\ i need to partition first and then format. what would i use to do that if i cannot access w/my floppy. it is not drive, etc., b/c it booted to a:\, and i type: format c:, it tells me that invalid drive specification.

Wes,
If you boot with your Win 98 boot disk and at the A:\
you type
A:\fdisk /status
enter.

Do you still get that error message?
If not, what does it give you for drive info?

Answer to your question: i get this display:

Disk Drv Mbytes Free Usage
1 38170 28057 100%
7452
6707
23996
The above screen does not appear the way i typed it. It shows under the Disk Column: 1; Mbytes, 38170; free 28057 Usage100% (that is for Disk1)
Second line has one entry under Mbytes: 7452
Third line: Mbytes 6707
Fourth line: Mbytes 23996

To refresh your memory:
my HD is 40GB; partioned as C: (primary), d:, e:, (logical).
(if you can give me some tips on how amount of space to partition, i would take that too. i tried to put c:\just under 8GB, but i could not get the number correct.)

Wes,
So your C drive is just under 8 gigs.
Then you have a D drive at just under 7 gigs. and an E drive at around 24 gigs. Right?
Boot with your floppy again and start computer without CDRom support for now.
A:\fdisk
enter
Option 4
Answer yes to view the logical drives on the extended partition.
See if all your partitions are listed with the correct drive letters and it all adds up.
Are they all Fat 32 partitions?

horatio, yes, i use fat32.
i just did what you said: type: fdisk, enter.
a fullscreen message appears, and i think i know its meaning but am not taking chances and would like to run pass you first. the gist is this: this pc can support larger than 512 MB. do you want to do so? y/n i should take yes. is tht right?

Wes,
Yes to Large disk support

this message appears:
Partition:1 status:A Type: Non-Dos Mbytes 6777 18% usage
Partition:2 (nothing) non-dos Mbytes 30710 80% usage
Partition:3 (nothing) ExtendedDOS Mbytes 38162 100% usage

It goes on: Extended DOS partion contains logical drives. Do you want info on logical drives. I answered yes; reply: no logical drives defined. end of message.

not sure what to make of that Wes. Let's wait until someone else can look at it before you try to delete them.

while we wait for a savior, can you tell me the partion size.
i want to make c:\8 gb, but i was asked to enter __MB. How much is that? i put some numbers, got rejected. i want to create 4 drives. appreciate and value your suggestions.

Wes,
For 8 gigs. enter 8000 mb.
My 40 gig is divided at 4 gigs for Win 98 "C drive" then I have 3 more partitions at 8 gigs each and then one more at about 4 gigs which I use for Ghost images.

thanks, horatio. that is helpful. now let us hope someone can bail me out of this mess. i will let the other pc runs.

Don't take this as a definitive answer, but if it was my system, since fdisk can delete non-DOS partitions, I'd just delete all partitions with fdisk and, here it comes, start over.

You have to delete partitions in a certain order, that's important. Do them in this order ...

1. Non-DOS partitions
2. Logical partitions
3. Extended partitions
4. Primary partitions

Then repartition using fdisk only, and format with the format tool like you did before.

To partition with fdisk, go into fdisk like you have been and create a primary partition and make it active.

Then create an extended partition using all the available space - it will show you the MB available, so I'd just type that number in for the size of the extended.

Then create however many logical drives you want. These logical drives are what you see in Windows, and will "fill" the extended. If it was me, I'd look at the size of the extended and just divide by three to get what size to make your logical drives. For the last one just make it whatever size is left - the numbers never work out exactly, so make the first two the same size and use the remaining for the third.

When you're done creating them, exit fdisk and format each one. This will take a while, but you'll know it's been done right. Then reboot and hopefully you'll be back in business and ready to install Win2K.

BogG,
thanks; i deleted non-dos partition; then extended partition; but the message says i cannot delete extended part while logical drives exist. so i tried to delete logical drives in extended dos partition; the message says: "all logical drives ... have been deleted"!
using the display funtion, i see only one partition left: extended dos. do i delete this?
i see no primary partitiion listed, strangely.

one further clarification. you said, "repartion using fdisk only, and format with format tool like you did before." are you telling to format using Win2k professional (which is my os) or Partition Magic 7.0?
thanks also for suggestion on partition sizes; what happened last time was that it never came out exactly.

Wes,
I think Bob is telling you to fdisk and format your partitions with the Win98 boot disk. Hopefully he will check back.
Delete them all Wes and then reboot back into fdisk and check that you get the "no partitions defined" message when you check the display partition info option.
The idea is to keep it simple and don't use Partition Magic.
You can wait if you want to see if BobG posts back Wes.

That was my mistake on the order - you did it right (I'll edit it after I post this.) Yes, delete the extended. After that, if viewing partition info (#4 on the main menu I think) shows no partitions, then I guess that's that.

What I mean by using fdisk only, is NOT to use PM, which is maybe how it got messed up to begin with. Or it could have been something you did in Win2K as Maggie was saying. I don't know anything about Win2K or how it deals with partitions, except that it's a lot different than Windows 9x.

The safest way I know to make FAT32 partitions is using fdisk, which is what it's for. I don't understand how it could not show a primary now, since it did before, unless you deleted it, but it should be the last thing you delete. I think it has it's own entry in the main menu for deleting, so you may have been looking in the wrong place when it said there weren't any.

Anyhow, delete the extended, go to the main menu and choose #4 to see your partition info, and that will show you what's left to delete. At this point (after deleting the extended) there should just be the primary. Then you can remake them with fdisk as I hopefully got right in the other post. I can't address Maggie's post, as I know nothing about 2K, but you can mess stuff up pretty fast in there. Don't worry about the partitions being exactly the size you want, that almost never happens because of the way the size is presented in different areas.

BobG,
i tried everything; there is no primary partition, it says; i am stuck with extended partition; each time i tried to delete it, it says it cannot be done b/c logical partitions exist. i go to delete logical partitions, it then tells me that there are no logical partitions!! i have tried each of the other options, still the extended partition cannot be deleted. there is a message also: "disk 1 is not startable unless a partion is set active." yes, there is an option for making it active but i fear to try lest i get into more hot water. disk info tells me that i have no active primary partition.
i even tried to format c:, it won't work either.
shall i make the only remaining partition (extended part.) active, then begin the deleting again? i am puzzled.

You're puzzled? :) Being active or not shouldn't affect whether you can delete it as far as I know, so I'm pretty much at a loss. Being on Win2K, you could have done things to your partition/drive structure that I don't know anything about. I don't know how you could have been booting to C: and now not have a primary though.

Try choosing menu item #2 just to see if it shows a primary partition there. I don't know why it would, but it will show you what partitions/drives are available to set active. You don't want to set any of them, just see what's available.

I gotta get a new mobo, so I'll be rearranging my drives tonight to see if I can get them so I don't need a RAID controller to hook them up. Time for me to see what I can mess up here ;)

bobH, i moved one step forward. but still fear to proceed until i am sure what the heck this is: it says my c:\ is PriDos. what is that? i can partition if i want, but my c:\ will be PriDos, i assume.
because i don't understand, i am afraid to proceed. see my post to maggie below.

You changed your disks to dynamic. You were in Disk Management. This is how to change back to a basic disk.
Right-click the dynamic disk you want to convert to a basic disk, and then click Delete Volume for each volume on the disk.
When all volumes on the disk have been deleted, right-click the disk, and then click Convert To Basic Disk.
Notes

To open Computer Management, click Start, and then click Control Panel. Double-click Administrative Tools, and then double-click Computer Management.
You must be logged on as an administrator or a member of the Administrators group in order to complete this procedure. If your computer is connected to a network, network policy settings may also prevent you from completing this procedure.
The disk must be empty before you can change it back to a basic disk. If you want to keep your data, back it up or move it to another volume before you convert the disk to a basic disk.


Once you change a dynamic disk back to a basic disk, you can create only partitions and logical drives on that disk

From Basic To Dynamic

Right-click the basic disk you want to convert, click Convert to Dynamic Disk, and then follow the instructions on your screen.
If you do not see this menu item, you might be right-clicking a volume instead of a disk, the disk might have been previously converted to a dynamic disk, or the computer is a portable computer. (Dynamic disks are not supported on portable computers, removable disks, detachable disks that use Universal Serial Bus (USB) or IEEE 1394 (also called FireWire) interfaces, or on disks connected to shared SCSI buses.) In addition, you cannot convert cluster disks connected to shared SCSI or Fibre Channel buses to dynamic. The Cluster service supports basic disks only.)

Notes

To open Computer Management, click Start, and then click Control Panel. Double-click Administrative Tools, and then double-click Computer Management.
You must be logged on as an administrator or a member of the Administrators group in order to complete this procedure. If your computer is connected to a network, network policy settings may also prevent you from completing this procedure.
For additional information about converting basic disks to dynamic disks, click Related Topics.
After you convert a basic disk to a dynamic disk, you cannot change the dynamic volumes back to partitions. Instead, you must delete all dynamic volumes on the disk and then use the Convert To Basic Disk command. If you want to keep your data, you must first back it up or move it to another volume. For more information about the Convert To Basic Disk command, click Related Topics.
Before you convert disks, close any programs that are running on those disks.
For the conversion to succeed, any master boot record (MBR) disks to be converted must contain at least 1 MB of space for the dynamic disk database. Windows 2000 and Windows XP Professional automatically reserve this space when creating partitions or volumes on a disk, but disks with partitions or volumes created by other operating systems may not have this space available. (This space may exist even if it is not visible in Disk Management.)
Once converted, a dynamic disk will not contain basic volumes (primary partitions or logical drives), nor can it be accessed by MS-DOS, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Millennium Edition, Windows NT, or Windows XP Home Edition operating systems. Dynamic disks can only be accessed with Windows 2000 or Windows XP Professional.
When you convert a basic disk to a dynamic disk, any existing partitions or logical drives on the basic disk become simple volumes on the dynamic disk.
Do not convert disks to dynamic that contain multiple installations of Windows 2000 or Windows XP Professional. When a disk is converted to dynamic, the partition entries for all partitions on the disk are removed, except for the system and boot volumes of the currently running operating system. Converting a disk to dynamic does not check for other installations of Windows, and deletes the partition entries for any other boot volumes on the disk. In addition, the volume-related registry entries in the second installation become outdated, and as a result you can no longer start that operating system.

By the way you can do all that Deleting, Fdisking and Partitioning if you boot from the Windows 2000 CD.

Well my you are having quite an education here.

yes, maggie, it is quite an education, way beyond my head.
see my reply to BobG above. i went first w/his suggestion because i fear that once i exit fdisk i won't be able to boot into win2k professional (my os).
i've printed out your recommendations and will try to follow that alternatively. thanks for coming to my aid. it is going to be a long night, i am afraid.

I got that out of XP's help and support Windows 2000 has a pretty good help file also. If you would have right clicked on the partition itself you could have changed the the letters and path the only option where it says disk 0 is convert to dynamic, properties and help. Good luck the next go around!

maggie, that was about 12 hours ago. that's where i made the fatal mistake. i did not know that. i appreciate your help to enlighten me. i will remember that the next go round! i could not understand what was originally a G:\ turned into O. i did not do a thing to mess that; that's what disturbed me. too late to undo that; the milk has been spilled. this is a real mess: cannot delete, cannot reformat; junk the HD is the only option? what a thought.

Wes,
Don't talk about junking the hard drive. There are lots more ways to skin this cat.
I would follow Maggie's advice and try to boot with the W2000 disk and try to delete them all from there. If you can, then boot with the Win98 boot disk and fdisk and format your partitions as Bob G layed it out for you.

If none of that works and it was mine I would use "Delpart.exe"
You can get it here:
http://radified.com/Files/

You download it right on to your Win98 boot disk (it's not big)
boot to the A:\ prompt and type: delpart.exe (enter)
It will give you a screen showing all the partitions it finds.
Just highlight a partition and click on DELETE and it will be gone.
After anything there is deleted, you reboot and use fdisk to partition and then format the partitions with the format tool on that floppy.

Another idea would be to download the zero write utility from your hard drive manufacturer and use that to write zeros to the drive. That will clean off everything no matter what is on the drive.

These are last resorts Wes but I think you are almost at that stage now.

Fdisk might not be able to read those partitions. Or do anything with them . Just stick the Windows 2000 CD in the drive enable booting from the CD in the bios. A,CD,HD for the boot order. Save and exit when it gets to the part of the boot up where it shows you all the info on where everything is(sorry I don't know the terms) a message will come up to hit enter (at the bottom of the screen) if you want to boot from the CD drive. Hit enter
Or boot from the boot disks you will get to the point where windows will show you the partitions. It will even recognize if there is an OS installed and ask what you want to do. Try repair if there is an OS on there. When it asks put the ERD in. If that fails to get you in start over with the floppies or the CD. Rerun setup and delete anything on there. Now you can fdisk and partion to your hearts content. Use BobG's I think Post 44 explains how to to everything.

maggie, when you said that fdisk does not recognize, etc., it was an illuminatin. i went ahead as you directed and baby it worked.
Horatio, nice to know that are more ways to skin this hd! i will remember that education, too, just for next time. i am taking notes of your references.
here is where i am now, maggie, horatio, and bob:
i deleted everything per maggie's counsel and now has one c: partition w/ 38162 Mbytes. Under "Type" it says: PRI DOS.
should i proceed to partition now? then format those partitions?
maggie, have been burned, so i want to ask FIRST, then act; not act first and then ask! lesson learned. i eagerly await your wisdom. lead me into the promise land, would you! thanks.

During Setup, you should create and size only the partition on which you want to install Windows 2000. After Windows 2000 is installed, you can use Disk Management to make changes or create new partitions on your hard disk. The partition that windows is on will be #0 the rest will be #1 choose what size and what kind of file system you want when you are finished with that there will be a disk #2 do the same thing. Then #3 It will be similar to fdisk and format but you will be in Windows. Just remember to right click inside the box where the drive letter is, not on the far left. You might want to move your cdroms done farther they will be d and e do that first.
You don't have to do this immediately. Go through the help files and get more comfortable. Unless you plan to install programs on these drives.

maggie, yes, i will follow that. my question is this: it now indicates that i have one drive, c:\ and its type is PRI DOS.
i have never read or seen anything called PRI DOS. is that a correct type. (Last time i did not know what "dynamic" was and went ahead and go me into this mess.) is the the type called PRI DOS a normal designation? if yes, then i will proceed. thanks. you have been a great help to me.

Sorry I missed this one. Primary Dos is the boot partition It can just have the what you need to boot and it can also have an operating system on it. If you let Windows 2000 install on that it will be your system partition.

system partition ( this is what it will be if you put 2000 on it)
The partition that contains the hardware-specific files needed to load Windows (for example, Ntldr, Osloader, Boot.ini, Ntdetect.com). The system partition can be, but does not have to be, the same as the boot partition.

boot partition ( this is the pri dos.)
The partition that contains the Windows operating system and its support files. The boot partition can be, but does not have to be, the same as the system partition.

Clear as mud.

I just let Windows format the whole drive in NTFS I only have one partition. 30 gigs. I also run Raid1 (mirrored drives) off an HPT Controller that is part of the mobo. I also backup what I consider important stuff to an external USB drive. Periodically backup my system state from two computers to that USB drive via a network. I am what you call very cautious. LOL once it is all set up it is a no brainer. I just have to leave the computer on and let it do it's stuff in the middle of the night.

Well hopefully you are well on your way and back in 2000 again. Sorry I missed this post. I was just reading the bottom ones.

Wes,
You should be OK to go ahead and fdisk now with your Win98 boot floppy. First, just to make sure, check option 4 in fdisk and see what you have there.

horatio, yes, i did check #4 and there is nothing there now.
so i will proceed. i am just puzzled by that PRI DOS stuff; never seen that before. i will go ahead. if it does not work, i have your last resort suggestion. by the way, i download the utility you mentioned. i even like the site!

Wes,
Just want to be clear here. Maggie is telling you to use your Win2000 CD to set up your Win2000 partition.
Bob G was suggesting you use the Win98 boot (fdisk)
Just want to make sure you know which way you are going here. Nothing wrong with either of them but you use one method or the other.
If you are using the win2000 cd, after you boot to it, you will get the setup wizard. You will choose Install a new copy of Windows 2000.
When you click next, Win2000 will search your hard drive for partitions. If there are not any it will create them for you. You choose Fat 32.

Okay, I'm out of my area here, but one thing is clear. In some fashion, you have your entire HDD as one primary partition. Since fdisk doesn't see it, it must be a Win2K thing.

If I were you, I'd use the 2K CD to delete that partition - you want to get it so no matter how you look at it, there's nothing on that HDD.

Of course, I don't know anything about how 2K does it's partitioning thing, so maybe it can create partitions without resizing the existing one or something - but that doesn't make any sense. See, the way it's reading now, you don't have any room for any more drives/partitions because C: is taking it all up. You'd have to resize C: smaller to have room to add anything. Maybe this is a normal situation for 2K, but it sounds weird enough to me to just start over and do it right with fdisk from the beginning.

The idea here to me is to start from absolute scratch, which would mean installing Windows again because you need to get all partitioning off that HDD. This all might have started a long time ago. I remember you were having trouble with PM and had to redo it a few times. I swear Wes, if a person bought a new HDD and installed and partitioned it without making any mistakes, it's a few hours, mostly waiting around while it formats and then you're good to go. If nothing goes wrong it's pretty easy. That's why I'd like to see you start from scratch. Look at it this way - if you've got a partition on there that you can't easily delete, something is wrong. Better to deal with that now, than have it bite you down the road when there's data to lose. Just me thinking out loud, but that's what I'd do.

BobG, Maggie, and Horatio:
Your support has been invaluable. I have noted everything you said.
First, Maggie. I tried to use W2K to partition as you suggested. But for some unknown reason, the size of the partition was pre-inserted and it was for the entire HD and it was unchangeable, even though the on-screen message said it could be adjusted to whatever size I wanted.
So I fell back on Bob's suggestion by using FDisk; the PRI DOS stuff which puzzled me turned out to be nothing more than Win's abbreviation for Primary Dos!! I got my partitions almost evenly divided, after securing a partition of 7.9GB for C:\ It was, Bob, truly starting from scratch; it went very smoothly and it did not take much time once I got started.
Then, I began formatting, using the floppy; that, too, flowed smoothly and went on relatively fast.
After that, I fell back on Maggie's invaluable advice: change the driver letters for CD-RW and Zip drives, using the right click, Maggie. Lesson learned. It was very easy and handy. Many, many thanks for that, Maggie. (That was what got me into trouble in the first place.)
Win2K and all drivers have been correctly installed; video driver gave me some trouble, but it got in eventually. I got my 256 colors and the text is clear, etc.
This is 2:30 a.m. local time. I want to write this, to express my profound gratitude to three of you for sticking with me. Horatio, yours has been a calming voice to my nerves and I also appreciate the clarity of your thought and suggestion. I remember not to junk the HD, too readily! You stepped in just at the right time when you were needed! Maggie, you educated me and I will take the gem with me. Bob, your instruction, too, has become part of me. I learned a lot.
Many, many thanks. Given the long journey of repeated setbacks, i fear to rejoice. Because of all of you, I am both chastened and wiser. I will carry with me the memory of your kindness and helpfulness. Time to sleep!

Hey dude, give yourself some credit :) It was your willingness to stick to it, your grace under pressure and your unfailing courtesy that kept me hanging around.

Like the little girl said after her father took her on her first roller coaster ride ... "That was fun Daddy, let's never do it again."

Well said Bob G. I totally agree.

Well said Bob
That goes ditto for me.

Wes,
You have the soul of a poet. It was my pleasure to be of help to you and do not hesitate to call on me any time via this form or E-mail if you need help again. Good luck...H:D