1. The Wall Street Journal is read by the people who run the country.

2. The New York Times is read by people who think they run the country.

3. The Washington Post is read by people who think they should run the country.

4. USA Today is read by people who think they ought to run the country but don't really understand the Washington Post. They do, however, like their smug statistics shown in pie charts.

5. The Los Angeles Times is read by people who wouldn't mind running the country, if they could spare the time, and if they didn't have to leave L.A. to do it.

6. The Boston Globe is read by people whose parents used to run the country and they did a far superior job of it, thank you very much.

7. The New York Daily News is read by people who aren't too sure who's running the country, and don't really care as long as they can get a seat on the train.

8. The New York Post is read by people who don't care who's running the country either, as long as they do something really scandalous, preferably while intoxicated.

9. The San Francisco Chronicle is read by people who aren't sure there is a country, or that anyone is running it; but whoever it is, they oppose all that they stand for. There are occasional exceptions if the leaders are handicapped minority feministic atheist dwarfs, who also happen to be illegal aliens from ANY country or galaxy as long as they are democrats.

10. The Miami Herald is read by people who are running another country, but need the baseball scores.

11. The Houston Post used to be read by government friends, executives and lobbyists of Enron Corporation but they no longer like the news.

That was great, Shelly. :D

Norm

hehe
but who reads calvin and hobbs

People who don't care what goes on in the country so long as they get a bigger piece of the pie. ;-)

hehe great example

I have enough trouble trying to read between the lines...Thanks..:-)
:-)

Great Shelly. I sometimes read the Wahington Post. Their Redskins coverage is better than the Washington Times but the Times editorial spends it's time trying to contrdict the Post. What a country!

Houston Post crapped like 10 years ago.

these days witht the internet I dont buy a newspaper very often. The internet is perfect for up todate news. When I buy a paper its usually USA today or the Sun Sentinnal. ( A south florida news paper) http://sunsentinal.com I only will buy a paper when Im out haveing lunch somewhere and need something to read. More often I grab the Citylink http://www.citylinkonline.com or Newtimes (free local area newpapers)

nice post shelly!



Garbru

All main stream media has a corporate agenda since main stream media is owned by corporations. GE, who has manufantured two thirds of the nuclear power plants in the US owns NBC, Disney ownes ABC and refused to air a 20/20 segment about unfair labor issues at Disney World, CNN is a puppet for the Pentagon and fired two of it's reporters for a story about using nerve gas in Vietnam and Fox News fired two reporters for refusing to censor a story about Monsato's bovine growth Hormone in milk.

Today's journalism is institutionalized gutlessness. No one speaks the truth for fear of threatening the governing elite and aristocracy.

For the truth in news read any alternantive news web site on the web. The web is the only place left to learn the truth. Try www.projectcensored.org for starters.

Hal9000

"CNN is a puppet for the Pentagon and fired two of it's reporters for a story about using nerve gas in Vietnam"

Maybe that was because the story was a fraud...

Nerve gas was used by American special forces operating in Laos during the Vietnam War. It's a fact. Eveyone knows it and CNN wouldn't broadcast it.

Additionally, from June 1999 to March 2000, CNN employed military specialists in ‘psychological operations’ (Psyops) in their Southeast TV bureau and CNN radio division.

CNN had hosted a total of five personel from U.S. Army Psyops, two in television, two in radio, and one in satellite operations. The military/CNN personnel belonged to the airmobile Fourth Psychological Operations Group stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. One of the main tasks of this group of almost 1,200 soldiers and officers is to spread "selected information." The group was involved in the Gulf War, the war in Bosnia, and Kosovo.

Hal9000

And, of course, you have a respected source you can cite for this "information"?

>Nerve gas was used by American special forces operating in Laos during the Vietnam War. It's a fact. Eveyone knows it and CNN wouldn't broadcast it.<

"Everyone knows it". Well, that's certainly an unimpeachable source. Just like "everyone" knew the Earth was flat in 1492. And just like everyone knows that girls can't get pregnant their first time. And...Well, you get the idea.

Given that we have Vietnam veterans in this forum, I'm much more inclined to believe them than "everybody". Especially when "everybody" has a political axe to grind.

Everybody knows it who's awake or wants to be awakened. Those that are still sleeping haven't learned even the truth about our history like that Jefferson, Madison and Washington were slave owners or that the first 5 of our 7 presidents were slave owners or that for 20 years we broke every treaty with The North American Indians we ever made.

Don't confuse Politics with the desire to expose corporate or goverment deception through media for geopolitical power or economic control! I have no political agenda. I only want to know the truth.

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of the war."
-- President Abraham Lincoln, November 21, 1864
(letter to Col. William F. Elkins) in Archer H. Shaw, The Lincoln Encyclopedia (New York: Macmillan, 1950), p. 40.

I am still looking for one supporting citation for the claims made in post# 14.

I will see none because there are none. These are the claims of long discredited propaganda mills. Fanatics that have no regard for truth.

Your claims in the first paragraph of post# 29 are common knowledge for anyone that ever took high school history. Until the Civil War slavery was legal in the US. Although slavery is indefensible, the economy of the south was based upon it, and the founding fathers broke no law by owning slaves. One can not use the laws and beliefs of the present to pass judgement on past societies that lived in different circumstances, and under a different legal and social norm.

>Those that are still sleeping haven't learned even the truth about our history like that Jefferson, Madison and Washington were slave owners or that the first 5 of our 7 presidents were slave owners...<

What, are you somehow assuming that most educated people weren't aware that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves? That's not some kind of deep dark secret; it's just history. It is foolish to judge our ancestors by today's standards. They lived in different times, with different morals. No doubt they would be horrified at our rate of abortions. We can bemoan the fact that slavery existed, but it's unfair to blame our nation's founders for a social evil that they certainly did not start. We can recognize the good our founding fathers did along with their darker sides. Even free blacks owned slaves in the US. There were 3000 black SLAVEOWNERS in the Confederacy during the Civil War.

Fewer than 10% of the approximately 10,000,000 slaves brought across the Atlantic over 400 years came to the United States, most went to the Carribean and South America. An even larger number (11,000,000+) of black African were taken east into the Middle East as slaves. The US forbade the import of slaves from Africa around 1832, and sent warships to intercept slave traders.

Your mistake, as with most idealogues (left or right), is that you are assuming you have some kind of monopoly on truth. Truth is objective, not subjective. History is much more complex than you seem to believe.

Gentlemen, Gentlemen:

Slavery a Social Evil??!! No Laws were broken!! The economy in the south was dependent on it! These are pathetic excuses for stamping out and crippling a human spirit, imprisoning a man's family and degrading his children and his children's children. I need no social mores to know that taking a man's freedom away from him or taking his dignity and his family'dignity can never be reduced to a social evil or law or economy. It's a crime against the deepest sense of what's universally right. If you were black you would be outraged at these oversimplified justifications.

The awareness that some of our founding fathers were slave owners is not hidden knowledge, it's selective knowledge that's casually brushed aside and not explored or addressed openly in a our public schools.

The Bill of Rights and the Constitution weren't written on behalf of men, they were written on behalf of WHITE MEN!!

No one can have a monopoly on the truth. It stands alone for anyone who cares to see it. My whole point of focus is in being aware of the continuing efforts to deceive the public through corporate/goverment controlled media.

>If you were black you would be outraged at these oversimplified justifications.<

I don't need to be black to be outraged by slavery. Slavery is, and has always been, a vile practice. But let's not forget that slavery has been practiced by, and on, almost every society in human history. It is not a racial thing; it was most often practiced on defeated enemies. The Romans had Greek, German and English slaves. Africans came very late to the slavery game. The very word "slave" comes from the Slavic peoples because they were so often used as slaves throughout history. Slavery is still practiced in parts of Asia and Africa. American slaves were not treated particularly poorly (nor well) by the standards of slaves throughout history.

I am not expecting special treatment just because my Slavic ancestors were oppressed by the Germans or Romans. I'm waiting for my reparations checks from the German and Italian governments. Also, my British ancestors were abused by Norsemen, so I'm waiting for an apology and a new Saab sedan from Sweden. And my Irish forebears were mistreated by British (Less than a century ago!), Americans ("No Irish need Apply"), and also Danes during the Middle Ages, so where's the dough? C'mon, fork it over, I'm a victim.

No people has a monopoly on atrocities committed against them. If we can't move beyond these, humanity will never live in peace.

The important thing is that you get your Saab.

I agree, slavery is not a racial thing, it's a freedom thing. Everyone knows somewhere in their soul on some level that to attempt to imprison another's spirit is wrong. It's a violation of universal law; whether it be culturally or economically fashionable is irrelevant and in the end will never be viewed as being justified under any circumstances.

You've been reading too much conspiracy theory rubbish!

Hal9000, Everybody knows those indians were imported from their owners over seas to work in the construction industry, especially in tall buildings, like iron workers or sumthin, cause they could throw rivets and stuff at each other.
Some escaped from the big cities and tried to homestead American land without paying for it out west here and we only let them get away with it out of the kindness of the American people.
A bunch of them settled up here in Northern Calif. once and tried to name a whole county after themselves called the Mendocino tribe and actually a bunch of us real Americans went up there to live back in the sixties. We raised some plants but a bunch of Feds came in and took them away from us.........

Yeah, I remember those plant days; late at night at an intersection sittin' at a blinkin' red light waitin' for it to turn green.

That's going back some. I'll bet you Ollie North was selling cigarettes to 12 year olds to raise enough money for the class president to wipe out pot smokin on campus.

Just plain balderdash!!!!

Bob H, it's NOT balderdash, that hadn't come out yet, we were making brownies and crunching seeds long before Balderdash. That was just before crack and the hard stuff started around.

We danced and pranced about GAYLY with little flowers in our long hair, my father disowned me for dancing and prancing about like a cute little butterfly. He said there could never be a two hundred thirty pound butterfly living under HIS roof, so I moved out into the park down there in the city.

We listened to Sly Stone (when he showed up), Aum and Tower of Power and went to light shows at Winterland though the lights all started to run on their own after about forty five minutes of "Window Pane", then we all got on the DR's. bus

"... There was a madness in any direction at any hour. You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right. That we were winning... that sense of inevitable victory over the forced of old... We had all the momentum. We were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. And if you look west with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high watermark. That place where the water finally broke in the late 1960's..."

Hunter S. Thompson

Hal9000

It's a fact?

Have you been to Laos? Do you know anything about nerve gas and how it is used? Or how it enters the body?

It's not a fact. It's one of the most rediculous lies that have ever managed to be claimed.

How can I know?

The MACV/SOG teams operating in Laos did not use MOPP suits. Yet I know members of the teams that are alive today.
The crewmen for aerial assets did not have protective clothing available to them. Yet none of them died from exposure to nerve agent.

Neither the governments of Vietnam or Laos claim that the United States used nerve agent in Laos or anywhere else in South East Asia. Considering we are talking about items that are considered "weapons of mass destruction", don't you think they would have complained? We assuredly did when the Russians deployed "Yellow Rain".

"Ii no, heea baa"

< Do you know anything about nerve gas and how it is used? Or how it enters the body?

Civilians call it sarin, you'd know it by the name GB. The mission was named Operation Tailwind. In September, 1970, a SOG team was assigned to wipe out a Laotian village suspected of harboring American defectors.

The SOG team was Based in Kontum, South Vietnam. During its preraid briefing at Kontum, the SOG team was told to kill anyone it encountered. Only a few of the SOG's co's knew the target and very few knew the exact type of gas. The unit leaders gave everyone M-17's before the raid.

Several days before the operation began, a small reconnaissance force was dropped into a valley near the Chavan. Sixteen SOG team members went to Dak To, near the border with Laos. The assault force included 12 Cobra's and two backup Marine choppers. As soon as the helicopters approached the landing zone near Chavan, they came under heavy fire. The SOG team hit the ground several miles from the targeted base camp and spent the next three days fighting its way toward it. The village raid lasted no more than 10 minutes. The body count upwards of 100. With the camp destroyed, spotter planes ordered the SOG unit to the rice paddy where the rescue helicopters would land. As the enemy closed in, the SOG team were told to don their M-17's. Then came the gas.

GB was employed in more than 20 missions to rescue downed pilots in Laos and North Vietnam. As for the defectors and the policy of killing them, Major General John Singlaub, U.S.A. (ret.), a former SOG commander, confirms what was the unwritten SOG doctrine in effect at the time: "It may be more important to your survival to kill the defector than to kill the Vietnamese or Russian." The defectors' knowledge of U.S. communications and tactics "can be damaging," he explains. "There were more defectors than people realize," says a SOG veteran at Fort Bragg. No definitive number of Americans who went over to the enemy is available, but Moorer indicated there were scores. Another SOG veteran put the number at close to 300.

Want more proof:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/1998/dom/980615/world_did_the_us_drop.html

That TIME magazine story was revealed as a hoax more than 3 years ago.: http://www.ishipress.com/cnn-gas.htm

Why would the US feel the need to kill defectors? We didn't assassinate even American citizens who defected to the Soviet Union during the Cold War, what possible significance could a few defecting soldiers in Laos have? Answer: None.


Besides, weren't you the one baldly stating that the media was controlled by the "military/industrial complex" just a few posts above? Why do you suddenly believe them now?

Hey, bright boy. Sarin, or GB, is a skin entrant nerve agent. An M17 Gas Mask won't stop it at all. The SOG team didn't DIE, so Sarin wasn't used.

Hmmm..what? No response here?

You might bother to learn a bit about the 4th Psychological Operations Group (Airborne) and what they do before you try to make any claims to people with a Special Forces background. I've spent time on Smoke Bomb Hill, and I know people from the 4th (which is a reserve unit, so it is no great surprise that the members would have civilian jobs). Try www.specialoperations.com

hal9000 is being more than a little selective in his use of the facts; CNN did broadcast that story about Sarin in SE Asia, after rushing it through in order to have that story as the centerpiece of a new magazine show (since cancelled) they were starting. There is no basis in the facts, the reporter and field producer probably realized it, but they used every nuance and spin to the facts to thread that story to make it appear as though it happened.
Using a slightly befuddled Admiral Moorer as their backup source was a really low point, and probably the real reason their in-house military expert retired MG Perry Smith quit the commentator job he had at CNN.

The story about the PSYOPS people working at CNN is true, and probably was underreported in the US, but then again, a lot of news is underreported. As for the reason why, my guess is that it does make CNN look pretty lame. It was reported on to a slightly greater extent in Europe, and nobody cared much about it there either.
CNN has never denied it is true, but no one at the top wants to take responsibility for the program. I have never read anything about them making stories for the reporters, influencing stories or anything that changed the way CNN did any story. They functioned as most other interns at big corporations do, learning the way things work, going for donuts etc.
Lesser known is the fact that some also worked at NPR during the same time period.

The "main task" of any SF PSYOPS units is to be a force multiplier, their aim is to save American lives by influencing the way friend or foe perceives us, yes, sometimes their methods may seem goofy (the music blaring from the loudspeakers in front of the Papal Nunciatura in Panama Viejo comes to mind), but in an age of instant communications anywhere in the world, any advantage from any source must be exploited.
The CNN that hal9000 thinks is in the vestpocket of the Pentagon is the same CNN that a few weeks ago had reporters in Afghanistan reporting live that troops were leaving their base in the 4 wheelers and heading west to Kabul; granted the Taliban probably were not able to use that information to their advantage, but in other situations our foes might be able to use that info; troops are most vulnerable during movements, and putting information like that on the air is pointless at best, and deadly at worst.
If the current state of American journalism is hal9000's chief complaint, that is a valid complaint, he has reason to doubt the stories he sees being reported on, but they are largely due to the ineptness of the press, not by the press being infiltrated by Army personnel.

I remember the stories the press did during the 80's about the Abrams tanks, how they were repeatedly breaking down, too sophisticated for your average GI to use etc., etc. The press did not believe them when the military denied it, but when Desert Storm rolled around and those tanks were tearassing across the desert at 40-50 mph, holing Iraqi tanks before they were in range of the enemy, I don't recall any of the press corp saying they had made a mistake.
end/rant

..."Using a slightly befuddled Admiral Moorer as their backup source was a really low point"

Whenever the CIA or any other intelligence outfit wants to neutralize the truth, it's common practice to discredit the bearer of that truth; in this case as being befuddled, drunk, old, or retired.

CNN's Peter Arnett was fired over this nerve gas issue even after he tried to diminish his involement with the project. He's gutless and wanted to save his 6 figure salary. I'd like to remind you that Melvin Laird, Secretary of Defense at the time of Operation Tailwind, says he has no specific recollection of GB being used, but adds, "I do not dispute what Admiral Moorer has to say on this matter." And the admiral points out that any use of nerve gas would have had approval from the Nixon national- security team in Washington. Henry Kissinger, National Security Adviser at the time, declined to comment.

Your claim that there's no basis in facts for the nerve gas story is simply not true. The SOG team members and the CO's that were there know the truth. For you to characterize PSYOPS personnel as going for donuts is ludicrous and naive. To suggest that PSYOPS main task is to be a force multiplier means nothing and is nebulous, misleading and axiomatic. Of course they're a force multiplier, anyone involved in the war is. The influence and interest for PSYOPS or any of the corporate media influence is to strengthen NATO's military alliance with the US and the American Public for geopolitical positioning in the middle east over control of oil and military domination. It's the name of the game, it's what's going on.

The CIA and Pakistan Intelligence have been working with the Taliban for political control in Afghanistan since 1997 because of American Oil interests in a Natural Gas Pipeline to transport recently discovered natural gas and oil from Russia through Afghanistan. The deal fell through because the Taliban refused to cooperate (they wanted more money). The US new about the invasion of Afghanistan In August of last year. See BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1550000/1550366.stm

Infiltration of army personel in the media is but a small part of the big picture. What I'm talking about is corporate contolled media and it's influence on key issues that will have a significant impact on us all in the very near future.

There is nothing reported in mainstream news today that could even closely resemble news. We worship celebrities and athletles and watch Entertainment Tonight while the World Trade Organization, The International Monetary Fund and The World Bank restricts free trade, engages in concentrating wealth, controlls food production, genetically alters food, privitizes water and energey and...

... does this mean no one will answer my computer questions anymore?

See post# 41.

Nothing interferes with our answering questions and helping anyone who asks for help.

I started this thread as a humor contribution to give people a little laugh. It got hijacked.

As do some of mine, and hopefully I added back a little touch in my post..... :+ :+ :+

Shelly, you forgot High Times...it goes right after the NY Daily News :)

Then, there's Rolling Stone and The Village Voice.

hehe
from what i understand high times was started by some one who use to live right here in montana

Good post, Shelly.

I only read what is in PC911, Lockergnome, and Langalist Plus.
Not burying head in sand, but when hubby has his TV on, I 'hear' what is being broadcast loud enough not to need reading it in the newspaper...same with the games being broadcast... :P }>

Lonnie

Great post, but remember - if you spend all your time reading about what others do, there's no time for you to do your own thing.

Fred

Personally , I dont spend alot of time reading newspapers but i certainly see the merit in having a large variety. Media is so slanted by business and when you read different sources (the more the better) eventually you come to the bone of the story.

I do most reading on the web, but Im extrememly leary of any news at a .com page.

Real news can be found at .org or .edu

t_bare

Do my own thing?...don't have a 'my own thing'.

Lonnie

Nice touch, Lonnie, but not quite what I meant.

:-)

Fred

Maybe I misunderstood, you were replying to my post or to Shelly's?
Need clarification, please.

Lonnie

Harry Potter!

I only believe government sources }>

Ethan

Just kidding, I'm a professional cynic

More fool you!

And that's not a criticism of the US government specifically. It's equally true anywhere in the world.

---

Paul D

I do some reading,but I get most of the news right off the Internet or the TV.I believe about half of what I hear :D,it seems that most all reports are often based on less than the facts :+ ,Tuff

Beth and I had an eyeopener on the accuracy of new organizations a while back. She was called in for and served on a jury during a rape case. (They had to see some pretty gory details.) There was no press coverage before the verdict (which was good because I had to pre-screen all the newspapers lest Beth accidentally read an article on the case). When it came time for sentencing though, what the judge had told the jurors and what the newspaper reported were two very different things.

I have long refused to give newspaper interviews, because I found what got printed was nothing like what I said. Reporters are seldom equipped to comprehend what they are told, and what small vestige of truth remains in what they write does not often survive the editors pencil.

Shelly - Having granted interviews about weather for magazines & newspapers, I found one rule worth sticking to - pre-publishing review. Don't like it, no interview. Don't provide that copy once - you never get an interview again - not only from me, but all the guys in the business I know. Seemed to work pretty well for me.

Fred

Right on, Shel! Reporters can be the lyingest scoundrels on earth when it comes to telling your story the way it should be told - truthfully! Anything to sensationalize and by the editor and 'into print'.

The ones I dealt with weren't deliberately inaccurate. They simply were not capable of understanding what they were told. Once it's in print, it's too late. Winston Churchill once said that "a lie was half way around the world while the truth was still putting its shoes on."

I personally prefer Stephen King and Ann Perry as I am in the midst of recreating the country. :7

Wilbur Smith
and what was the name of that guy is a Space Oddessy 2001 that dismantled Hal? Where is he when you need him.
ed, Laos 68-71

Accept challenges, so that you may feel the exhilaration of victory.


General George S. Patton

Daves not here man...
:-)

Yeah, he had to go re-primer the jeep.

OK! Im through general.

I’ve been meaning to mention to you and a few other people that geocities doesn't allow off domain linkage. If you think your avatar is posting, clear your cache and see if it's still there in one of your posts, I doubt if it will be. You need to get it on another server, like 911's. Or it could just be me, but I don't think so.

:-)

Mostly Stephen King and others of that genre. I read all the old ScF stuff through the forties, saw all the movies thereafter.....Anything with H.R. Giger graphics (like Alien 4)

Anything with John Agar scarys (Revenge of the Tarantula), all that fifties stuff.....Attack of the Giant....(insert your choice), Return of the....(your choice)...Mummy's, Spiders, Snakes, and especially anything called " B E M s", and make sounds like "AARRAAGAHH!! "

Anything that grabs you in the night, Grabs the girl in the night, Grabs the girl anytime, Mummys that walk like "CARIS", dragging one foot...GITCHOU's that jump, GOTCHA's that spring up, crash down, Hang up there waiting....

Giant grasshoppers that destroy Chicago, San Francisco. Lizards that covet the girl (same girl you coveted but they're stronger), Replicants from outer space, Microsoft manuals....... Replicants from inner space, Replicants from down the street with little things in their neck, Redmond Clones, the attack of the Redmond gitchou wiggly.

Green slimey things that go plop in the night, uhgh...green slimey things that can reach up from the ground and make YOU go plop in the night..yuk!!

Shrinking men, incredible giant ladies (think of the challange there), old dead guys trying to gitchou...even worse yet, old dead women trying to gitchou, old LIVE women trying to gitchou, parts falling off, some of YOUR parts falling off!!

All I want to know is #12 Playboy and Hustler is read by people who (fill in the rest):-)

only read it for the articles, honey!

still feel the rush of blood in their loins.}>

Lil' Joe

How about "Can still REMEMBER the rush of blood in their loins (or anywhere at all, for that matter)"

I can hear it rushing in my ears, but that's about the only thing I hear. :'(

In perfect agreement, Old Dude. ;-) Pat

Tom Clancy except for Rainbow 6.

W.E.B Griffin

Dale Brown

Robert Ludlum

James Michner

Stephan J Cannell

David Baldacci

Richard Herman

Mario Puzo

Clive Cussler

David Poyer

Louis Lamour

William J Caunitz

Tami Hoag

DJC
Surprised you get ANY time to do ANYTHING !! :-)